I was thinking about the meaning and weight of “trust”.
Do we trust?
Can we?
Who can we?
In relationships, do we trust each other?
In love… Do we REALLY, deeply, totally trust the other? If not, how can we be with him/her?

In business, do we trust the one who is selling us something? (for personal experience, 90% of times we can’t).
For example, we buy (if we buy it) an Anti Virus product. Are we SURE that viruses are not made by Anti Viruses developers, to gain more? (Comodo apart. Do not ask me why, but I feel I can trust it)

It is like for medicine. Have you ever thought about why there is not, nowhere, a real preventive medicine? Why nobody really teach us how to not get sick, instead of being there always ready to heal us for money?

We have borders, nations, loves, hates… But we are essentially one single race in one planet. We should not be divided. We should be trusty, and we should trust.
Why do we use each other?
What? “I do not use anybody”? Well, where do your privileges come from, if not from a government who exploit other peoples and cultures? Where does your bigger portion of the cake come from, if not from the portion which corresponded to your brothers on other nations?

Why don’t we simply live together?

But if we can’t put together our inner world, how can we pretend to put together the outer one…


To “Trust” Someone, Something, An Organization/Campaign/Company is simply in my opinion Common Sense. Humans have instincts.

News & Media adds alot to how/why should we trust, etc.


Who controls the controller?
I mean, do you seriously trust media?

About instincts, I would trust more intuit than instinct…

With companies, the problem is that the system itself often if not quite always push companies and individual business men to search their own benefit at the expenses of the others.

And, just as personal reflection for everybody: do we like our partner, or do we love him/her?
Often, especially at the beginning, but astonishingly also in older relationships, people do not trust each other totally.
If not, where does jealousy come from?

Hey Joe, I may only be young (17 years old) But I’m starting to learn that people are not always as they seem,

Most people are only in it for them selves. They are your friends sure, But why? Because it benefits them.

You’re real friends are those that will come visit you in hospital, go out of their way to see you, to sacrifice what they are doing for YOU.

Right now, though I am still young, I believe that Girls in my life will come and go, My family will stay, and my true friends will stay. They are the people I want around me. Not some boy/girl attractions with each other, true friendship\family is so much more.

As far as I’m concerned, most (99.9%) of company’s don’t give a stuff about you, They are in it for them selves.
It’s sad when the world revolves around $$. The thing I like is that there are SOME nice people in the world - for example here on comodo’s forums,Aids work, Poverty support, Doctors and nurses in countries like Iraq and Africa. Helping somebody else for free, not expecting anything back.

I’m going into the army next year, It’s not for the money. It’s the feeling of making a difference.

Sorry if I’m off topic lol. Just got a rush through myself and needed to express it.

To be honest…

Regarding Friends. When your older… Like 30 years old. You will realize you might only have one or 2 true friends. Because you have your own house, a wife, kids, etc and work.

Family will ALWAYS be with you. But only one or 2 TRUE friends will still be there for you. But it’s the Adult world.


hmmm you forgot to mention about your gf 88)
oh ehm, this is a serious thread huh? oh OK,
err about trust eh? errrrmm…
hey i trust my tv series & anime dvd seller (:HUG)

Kyle if you want to make a difference you’re not going to make a good impact by fighting another man’s war for his/her personal reasons. The reason the world is in such a bad state today is because MAN can never be satisfied and as Joe explained it do whatever they can for their personal gain and greed. That’s the way the world turns and it will always be like that. If we are to make a difference we have to realize that nothing on this earth last forever. A man once complained that he had no shoes till he met a guy who had no feet.

I regarded “wife” as MY gf Ganda :slight_smile:


Why don’t we simply live together?
I ask myself that same question everyday in a world where religion teaches us to segregate ourselves from neighbors we supposed to love. To tell you the truth I cant even trust anyone anymore and sometimes I cant even trust myself.

There will always be times when you have to trust be it a product or a person you will have no choice.

Sorry for the inconvenience I had to remove the religious debate in a private section of this forum and ask other moderators to review it.

Gibran, I am glad you did that :slight_smile:

Greetz, Red.

Hmmm, it took me a bit to realize what you did.
I guess that I was editing my large post for Kyle when you did it, and for this reason it is still here, but it has got no sense here.
I wonder if the not edited version has been moved there (where?), or not.
In any case, could you please move the large post above where you moved the rest?
In case there is already the other one, please, change it for this, may it be?


(waiting to be moved)

First of all, I’m sorry If anything I said came across offensive to anybody, I did not intend that I tried very hard not to.

Very long and interesting post! Thank you Joe, I do not take offense at all to your views at all. Funny thing, I started talking to a girl from Argentina last night.
For one I am not from or live in America, I live in Australia and was born there. I don’t really think that it matters anyway :slight_smile:

I agree with 99% of your points. especially the circle, I think something must be done though, or more killings will happen.
I agree with you that war is not the answer, something must be done though. The world must change, or how it is going at the moment, we will destroy ourselves and each other.
I am doing what I feel is right, just as Muslims are doing what they think is right, just as most other people are trying to do things right.

Also I’d be very surprised if I got punished for anything more than an off topic post, I was putting down the facts as they are.

(:LGH) (:CLP)
Seriously? You are not even “American”?!
Ah ah ah!
No, really… Funny…
Well, Kyle, on my side, no problems, and, well… ■■■■ luck! (:HUG)

Gibran, as if nothing. I will delete it myself, the important was Kyle reading it. Done. Thanks!

Coming back to Trust…

We talked about what/who we trust and if it is right/safe or not to trust those persons/things.
But, how would you define “trust”?
I mean the total blind trust, not the “I have no other choices”.

Hmmm, I am just now seeing two kind of trust: trust intentions (more about persons), and trust reliability (about persons, but also products).
I can see also two intensities/qualities of trust: trust here and now, or trust without limits nor conditions.
So, four kinds of trust: trust someone’s intentions here and now within certain limits of this here and now, trust someone’s intentions always and everywhere whatever it passes whatever I do in any circumstances, trust someone/something’s reliability here and now, and the same but “forever” (very difficult one).

Also, where does trust come from?
Is it an independent “process”, or does it needs something else to be present before it to be able to manifest?
I have a theory/feeling/intuition. I must tell that my approach to trust is through love and Love, as I gave much importance to love in my life, and now I give it to Love.
So, IMHO, if for Trust we mean the total blind complete absolute trust on someone’s intentions always etc., I guess that we can safely trust only when we know we are Loved. Not when we are loved.
Difference? Again IMHO: who loves us expects something from us in change, even just “to be always like we are” so that we can keep pleasing him/her/them. If in some moment we should stop pleasing him/her/them, well…
We do not love who does not give us some kind of pleasure.
Many marriages are a sort of pact. They may be in love and even love each other. But not Love each other.
While we Love also who does not give us any kind of pleasure.
What is Love? Always IMHO: it is giving, with NO reason, without expecting ANYTHING in change, not even a “thanks”. Not even a self given moral satisfaction as “I did the right thing”, or a religious one as “God will bless me”.
And who Loves does not judge. Never.

In other words, love depends on certain conditions, Love does not.
Only now, in my life, I am starting to feel that I could Love. Even a partner, which paradoxically is the most difficult person to Love, as we can do (quite) whatever for a friend or a familiar without expecting (quite) nothing in change (maybe some kind of self gratification). But we do expect pleasure from our partner. Isn’t it? We do expect, also, that he/she will always Love us…
We hope so.

I leave it here for now. I want to be sure I am not monologuing.
Which is very possible (:AGL)

I would also separate trust two ways:

  1. Trust blindly given on faith, or the presumption that someone/something is worthy of being trusted without any factual evidence for or against, or even dispite some negative assertations. This could be called “unsubstantiated trust”.
  2. Trust given due to a prior history of reliability, either through personal experience or through empirical evidence derived from unbiased sources. This could be called “substantiated trust”.

And regarding the premise that family will always be with you…I wish this were true, but family members are just people too, with the same strengths and flaws. While there is a certain connection amongst family members, at least at the beginning, this connection can also be strained to the point that the relationship desolves. Even though this connection can be a starting poiint to granting trust, there are many ways that trust can be destroyed, no matter how close those people were at one point. Friends drift apart, and so do family members, if those involved don’t work together to maintain that relationship.

Yeh I understand what you mean, I haven’t seen my father or talked to him for 4 years or so now… It was my choice, I’m glad I made it - I was not happy or healthy to have a relationship with him.

I think that there is a bond that is formed, an Instinct that family have to look out and look after each other.

Let’s TRY not to get to personal here guys :wink:



Yes, may be. In this case we have 2 kinds of trust (intentions and reliability: two completely different things), approachable in 2 way (consciously or impulsively), with 2 different kind of intensity (conditional or unconditional).


About family, I agree with you.
The thing is very simple, some people has got a wonderful family, some a normal one, some a bad one, some a terrible one. “Family” itself does not include necessarily any warranty of trustiness.
Often we can trust quite much their conscious intentions, but for the very particular nature of the relationship in family there are unconscious intentions which sometimes push them to do a bad thing thinking it is the good one. So, we can quite always trust the intentions, IMHO only conditionally, but not always the reliability.
Also often parents forget the difference between education and instruction:

  1. e-dùcere, let something come out = to understand your son’s personality, nature, talents and potential, and, unconditionally, whatever it is, to help him/her to develop it, even if you do not agree. Some parents are totally unable to do this. Some others do impressive and quite exagerated things to do it.
  2. in-strùere, build something outside in, give form (same root of “structure”) = projecting to your son YOUR personality, limits, dreams, fears, and conditionally trying to do of your son what YOU think he/she should be, what you was not able to be, or what you are.

Other limits of the relationship in family is: attachment. I don’t know where you all live (I already misunderstood an Australian for an Americaner :SMLR ), but i.e. in Italy mothers are really possessive, they do not let you go. And this does not help the son to correctly grow up. In fact I am an idiot, as you all can easily see.

And, as said before, to Love is also to wish the good for someone even if this is not good for you and will hurts you. Mothers are quite completely unable of this. Well, Italian ones, at least…

Finally, as you say, there is the inner personal limit of each one. They are persons, after all, or “humans”, as Kyle says.

I feel more and more that the key to the complete and perfect trustiness is related to Love and and particularly with “to not judge”, which is vital for the unconditionality in any kind and grade of relationship.

I guess that in one’s life, possibly the most common trusty relationship is the unexplicable unconditional friendship.
For what I saw of couple relationship, I think that more often we can trust in friends than in lovers.
Untill and unless we meet our real and only Twin Soul.

Other interesting question is if you (all) felt/feel trust for someone, someone phisically “existing” or not (i.e. some people trust Angels. Some of them have or think to have proves -substantiated trust-, some others just “feel like they can trust”, which anyway it is not senseless, as Angels are said to Love unconditionally and to help without judging. I myself have never felt any angel, nor thought too much about them, but I “feel like I can trust”).

As we have not to go too personal (wasn’t it an off topic board? O0 ), more centerd questions could be:
when you choose a security software, how can you know you can trust either its intentions or its reliability 100% sure?
I.e., do you know how this topic was born? The imput was the poll by Melih, about if we would pay for a security etc…
In that moment I thought “I would not pay for a Comodo product. Because till they do it for free, they do it for passion. And I trust them. If they would become powerful and reach and grow up a lot, I fear that I would not be able to trust anymore 100%. Nothing personal, of course”.
Finally I answered yes. As I like the product. Ane there was no space for a comment, or I had no wish to leave one, and it was crude to say no without being able to explain why.

Key, IMHO, is in the difference between “faith”, “believes”, “knowledge”.
And, at least in this case, common sense too. Also resignation… :THNK

I very much enjoy these forums… and the people who are active in it… When Comodo gets to the top, I mean one of the big names like Trend,Norton,Panda, etc etc… Comodo should host a meeting or something so we can all get to meet each other and have a drink. Right now I only know Joe as a Weasel display picture, Vette as an Xbox 360 picture lol. I would would be up to pay for a flight somewhere and meet everyone ^^