I would rather have someone be kind because they wanted to not because they are god fearing, Morality by no means comes from religion.
You got to remember that science is the search for truth nothing more nothing less. They are not trying to prove creationists wrong for the sake of it. The only way you can find what really happened at the beginning of time is to apply science not just say it was god and leave it at that.
Intelligent design falls flat on its face and because of one fact. To design something complicated the designer has to be more complicated than the thing he or she is designing. Therefore who created the designer??? So if god created the universe who created god?? you are left with an infinite regress.
Just like a second dimension creature cannot image the 3D realm, so do we have trouble with imagining Someone who needs no creating, is outside of time (the 4D right?) and who has always been.
If there is no God or no religion, there would be no morality. There would be no reason for it.
Science can only go so far…for most limit it to what humans can think of.
Las, you seem to be implying that Science is against religion or trying to “prove” that God doesn’t exist. I’m not at all sure why or how they would do any of that.
You cannot just come out with statements like god in another realm etc, There no evidence for it. Its like Bertrand Russell’s tea pot analogy. You cannot prove a negative.
Morales defiantly do not come from religion. So you think Slavery is morale??? you think stoning women for adultery is morale??? you think treating daughters like property is morale?? you think killing apostates is morale?? Punishing people breaking the sabbath is morale??
Some think they are in conflict, and that religion cannot be proved by science. I would argue that science is very useful, and does show us God. There is more to it, however, as a personal revelation.
God is in another realm, and in this one. He created this one, which is in time.
There is evidence for a God. If you haven’t ever walked in a wood or garden, do so. If you haven’t wondered how some beings like us could come from mush and be “goo-men”, do so.
Some don’t want to listen and look…they want to be “free”.
Without God, slavery might be moral, and so would ■■■■■■, ■■■■, and the rest. There would be no set rights and wrongs. Who could tell? It would end up that the ones with the power would define morality, and rule over the rest.
There is no basis for morality without God, as humans would not be important, and what is right and wrong would be anyone’s choice, or the person’s/people’s who rule over them.
You just described ADAPTATION, not evolution. I’ve been trying to explain that for days now.
Yes, natural selection and evolution are different things. One is true, and one isn’t. 
Natural selection leads to evolution.
I agree there is some amazing things you can find taking a nice walk in the woods and there are some amazing things in nature. But that is not evidence for god in any shape or form.
What i was trying to say is all these things that we now see as immoral is perfectly moral by the Ahbrahamic religions standards. They even encourage them.
So the adaptation of life came BEFORE life originated? :o
mod edit: I preferred the first version. ;) kail
Species can adapt and change within themselves, but they can’t gain new properties or become other species.
That is evidence for God…the design. If you walked on a beach and clearly saw the words “Hello Ocean” written in the sand, would you think the waves made it or that someone designed them?
You can tell what is designed.
“Ahbrahamic religions standards”? They don’t support slavery. Some adulteresses were stoned, because that is a serious sin and it could lead others to do the same. I don’t remember something allowing fathers to treat their daughters as property (I would like to see the verses). “Apostates” were punished (executed) for leaving because they might lead others astray and it was a sin too. Breaking the Sabbath was disrespectful to God.
You see, a completely just Being cannot live with sin, therefore the punishments and sacrifices. Note that God is still this way…only the sacrifice has changed.
What do you mean?? Natural selection and evolution is what happened long after the big ■■■■ and the creation of the first single cell organisms
Evolution tries to explain why an amoeba became a fox. Adaptation explains why Artic foxes have thick coats and small ears while desert foxes have thin coats and large ears. Evolution would have made adaptation possible if that’s what you subscribe to.
Btw, I changed the quote you used right after it was typed, I misspoke.
You cannot deny that the bible and koran are jammed full of verses encouraging slavery, ■■■■■■, ■■■■ etc. And yes these religions do not support slavery today because of mordern morales decide by secular and rational discussion.
Just look at recent events to show the moral purity of the religious. The pope covering up ■■■■■■■■■■, Catholics preaching condoms are worst than aids. The arch bishop of Canterbury blaming the 2004 tsunami on homosexuals. Just to mention a few.
Catholicism is basically a different religion than Protestantism. Christians do not see the Pope as anything other than an employee of the Catholic Church. The Bible was written in time when the world was a completely different place, therefore the wording and values were subject to that time. Shakespeare is subject to the same thing. Also, you’re apparently confusing the New Testament with the Old Testament (Moses’ Law), which doesn’t apply. Homosexuality is probably an issue that doesn’t need to be addressed here.
It still shows that you do not get you moral values from the bible. You cherry pick the good things and put all the bad things down to it being written in a different time.
A religious discussion thread 88)
Why hasn’t this been locked ;D ‘There are people with different views all around the world’
This is the perfect opportunity for them to clash…
Ah everyone likes a good debate, As long as it is moderated well. Also how can bad ideas be filtered out with out discussing them.
The Koran maybe (I don’t know it). I don’t see any in the Bible, though. It just discusses those since it was part of the culture when the Bible was written.
The examples are of Catholics. I would argue that a lot of “Christian” Catholic leaders in history (and some today) were not really Christians, or were not following what they said they believed.
As Jesus said, the commands of the Bible can be summed up in one sentence: “Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself.” (Not the “emotion” love, but real love…the actions toward others.) It excludes slavery, blaming, etc.
You are picking out so-called “Christians”, while ignoring all of the real Christians over the ages, some famous and some known only to their neighbors.
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people - Exodus 21:7
Slaves be obedient to those who are your masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ
If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. John 15;6