actually we do not collect either! And also the information mentioned in the EULA does not identify you the user. FYI: everytime you go and do a search on search engines, they see your IP address, everytime you go to different websites they see your IP address. Also that information, as clearly stated in the EULA, is only related to proper use of our product, nothing else.
Melih
Quoting again the EULA:
Comodo grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable license to download and use Comodo BOClean™, including any documentation files or website information accompanying it (collectively, the "Program"), on a single personal computer and to make one backup copy of the Program, provided that: (i) the Program is installed on only one personal computer; (ii) the Program is NOT modified in any manner; (iii) all copyright and proprietary notices or labels are maintained on the Program in their original format; and (iv) you agree to be bound by the terms of this License
Hi Melih,
Thanks for your reply.
I think it is the wording in the EULA.
The EULA makes it absolutely clear that the program may installed “on only one personal computer”.
That means that the moment someone installs it on two personal computers, he/she is violating the EULA.
I am not talking about an unlimited number of personal computers on which it is installed.
I can’t help it. It is the wording in the EULA.
PS: no, I am not bashing Comodo nor BOClean.
Regards, Jan.
Quoting again the EULA:
Comodo has the right to gather information regarding the use of the Program, including, but not limited to, IP Address, MAC Address, and admin email address to guarantee the proper use of the Program as granted by this Agreement.
Quoting Melih:
2)This I believe relates to the licensing we have (I will check it further). So that we are allowed to have access to user's IP address etc so that we can check to enforce licensing. As you know there is a license module that automatically gets a license and these clauses are there to make sure that we have access to things we need to enforce licensing. if we didn't have these and relied on these to make our licensing decisions, than we would not be in a good legal standing as we would not have access to these information.thanks
Melih
Quoting Melih:
actually we do not collect either! And also the information mentioned in the EULA does not identify you the user. FYI: everytime you go and do a search on search engines, they see your IP address, everytime you go to different websites they see your IP address. Also that information, as clearly stated in the EULA, is only related to proper use of our product, nothing else.Melih
Hi Melih,
Sorry, please allow me again (without any intention to bash Comodo nor BOClean).
Please read the quote from the EULA carefully.
Yes, there is that phrase about the “proper use of the Program”.
BUT: there is also the phrase about gathering information … “including, but not limited to”.
And that is exactly the culprit here !
Yes, going to a site does reveal some info about you.
But that is not the problem here.
Intentions might be all good, but in the end it is about what the EULA is saying.
Again it is the wording in the EULA.
Regards, Jan.
Jan
Thanks for these.
So even though you accept that the information mentioned in our EULA can be obtained by every site you visit by simply visiting them, the fact that it is mentioned in our EULA is the problem. So you have no problem the very same information being collected, potentially, by every site you visit, but because it is mentioned (not even collected) in our EULA you have problem with that.
I understand. I will refer this to our legal people.
Melih
J.R. you have a good eye and brought up some interesting points
Melih,
Hopefully the following example will make clear why the wording “including, but not limited to” in the Eula has us upset.
I have a telephone (from the phone company) in my house. My name, address, and phone number is published in a phone book for all to see. The phone company does not require me to give them a key to my house before I can legally use the telephone. The wording “including, but not limited to” in the Eula is in essence requiring me to agree to give Comodo the key to my house (computer) in order to legally use Boclean. It’s as simple as that…
While I certainly understand concern, I honestly don’t see the issue with Comodo’s legalease in the EULA. The gathering of information is not/should not be the main concern; it’s how the information is used that is the issue. Trust me, virtually everyone is collecting information. Your bank, insurance company, employer, government, doctor, all these and more collect information on you; information far more serious in nature and scope than this. Websites by default gather this and more, without even telling you. The thing to do is look at the privacy/usage policy; every company that collects (ie, stores, aggregates, uses) data on individuals should a written policy on the terms of use for this data (typically referred to as a Privacy Policy).
Read some other EULAs; you will find it’s not out of the norm. Of course, being normative does not make it “right,” I’ll grant you that. But to use the telephone analogy, if your phone has been provided by the phone company, I guarantee you that in the fine print somewhere (their “EULA”) there is a clause that says they can take it back at any time, whether you pay your bill or not. I guarantee it. There is also a clause that they can discontinue providing you service at any time, whether you pay your bill or not. These things do not mean that they will; the wording is there because we live in a world that loves to get litigious. Thus, everyone, including (perhaps especially) companies, must cover their backsides in the event that something unforeseen happens, in which they could be left hung out to dry. If they do not have relatively broad spectrum in their wording, they are left vulnerable. They’re vulnerable even with it, but it helps somewhat.
LM
PS: I’m not saying any of this to “take sides” but rather to shed some light on why some things like this are done this way; I would hazard a guess that Comodo is not in a position where they are realistically able to change the EULA, because of the nature of things. Hopefully, they will continue to share in regards to this scenario, and help establish a level of comfort for their users.
BTW, those with concerns might find it interesting to run Eulalyzer on it (and any other EULA). I thought it was interesting that it did not trigger at all on the wording over which this concern was expressed. It had several hits in the Third Party section, it showed the reference to Comodo’s Privacy Policy (the highest “interest” rating of all), and two items in the Indemnity section (Section 10, I believe).
For me, I’d be more concerned about that, than the collection of data. Reason being, it stipulates that by using the software, the user agrees to defend Comodo legally over any situation that arises from that use of the software (even if you no longer use it); that Comodo can provide an attorney of their choice for the user - at the user’s expense - and that attorney is to be used. But that apparently is not out of the norm, either…
All in all, Eulalyzer said the “calculated interest rating/ID” was fairly low, that it was a healthy read and had some interesting words and phrases. Nothing outstanding. Of course, that’s just its analysis; it’s looking for things it’s been programmed to, and is not thinking for itself… 
LM
I ran the Eulalyzer on the BoClean Eula also. I noted the flag of the web address section for the privacy policy too. I clicked on the link to the privacy policy to find that there is NO privacy policy! I don’t know if that is why Eulalyzer gave a bad rating as there is nothing there to read. I’m sure this is a temporary screwup but, none-the-less, I don’t know anyone who would agree to a Eula that indicates there is no privacy policy. I hope the link is fixed quickly.
[attachment deleted by admin]
The link to the Privacy Policy should be http://www.comodo.com/repository/privacy_agreement.html The web master that setup the EULA page just made a boo boo and didn’t proof the link…
Yup the policy link is listed at the bottom of most Comodo pages.
I have never been a big EULA reader but I can see why it disturbs users.
In the old days Kevin said you could install Bo Clean on one home desk top & one laptop. he then went on to allow you to install one copy on all your home computers.
I am thinking the EULA is saying you can install the one copy you downloaded on one computer but you can install a different download on another home computer.
Is this correct? New download for each computer? If you had a Lic. key this would eliminate it wouldn’t it?
con
Oh, that’s precious! (:CLP) I didn’t check it either, LOL! I just saw it was there; I’ve read the privacy online from the website…
LM
They’ve always said that since it’s free they don’t care how many times you install it. They just ask that you get a new download each time so they have some tracking of usage. This is also the point of doing licensing/registration of the product (which some people don’t like, as the product is free).
Downloads do not necessary equal usage, but it does give an idea of potential.
Licensing/Registration gives a much better idea of how many people are actually using it, and allows them to correlate trends more effectively (downloads, from which server, plus licenses = statistics).
LM
Yes, a major discussion has erupted at dslreports regarding the indemnification clause. Folks are refusing to install Comodo BoClean because of that clause. I would not take the risk either. It is too bad because BoClean is a great product but that clause is a show stopper.
Such a shame that Comodo’s lawyers felt it necessary to go so far.
Could well put people off using the excellent product (assuming they ever read the whole EULA).
Perhaps a rewrite is in order.
Excellent discussion on the DSL link Mele. 
So then those of us that paid for BoClean can still keep using the old version and not be held by the NEW EULA?
I have been very reluctant to post about the new CBOClean. I was a paid user with more than one license. I have posted on other forums that I would be pleased to pay an annual fee for the use of this program. But, stuff happens.
I think some folks need a reading comprehension class. The first point of contention was the statement: "Comodo has the right to gather information regarding the use of the Program, including, but not limited to, IP Address, MAC Address, and admin email address to guarantee the proper use of the Program as granted by this Agreement.
I have seen responses from responsible people dance all around this issue but I want to be specific. It is the “not limited to” part of this agreement that brings questions.
Now for a different item:
This is quoted from the link below: Posted by Kevin.
“No other lawsuits ever happened after that one though … kinda curious in a way how this is even coming up again all these years after the fact … COMODO has already bought us out and Melih has said numerous times that our “we cover it all” will remain in effect and in fact has taken the statement further by offering any malware group his personal “bring it on” if anyone wants to try to convince COMODO that BOClean shouldn’t cover any specific malware out of some legal fear campaign such as the one we endured years ago. So nothing to worry about here folks …”
Now above is that wonderful statement “bring it on”. Well, I can see with the EULA why that would be said.
You agree to release, indemnify, defend and hold harmless Comodo and any of its contractors, agents, employees, officers, directors, shareholders, affiliates and assigns from all liabilities, claims, damages, costs and expenses, including reasonable attorney’s fees and expenses, of third parties relating to or arising out of (a) this Agreement, or your breach of the terms of this Agreement, (b) your use of the Program, or (c) any intellectual property or other proprietary right of any person or entity. When Comodo is threatened with enforcement proceedings or suits, or is sued by a third party, Comodo may seek written assurances from you concerning your promise to indemnify Comodo, and your failure to provide those assurances may be considered by Comodo to be a material breach of this Agreement. Comodo shall have the right to participate in any defense by you of a third-party claim related to your use of the Program, with counsel of our choice at your own expense. You shall have sole responsibility to defend Comodo against any claim, but you must receive Comodo’s prior written consent regarding any related settlement. The terms of this paragraph will survive any termination or cancellation of this Agreement.
Very disappointed and specifically to Kevin. My reputation is on the line also as I recommended this program to many folks and talked quite a few into purchasing.
edit to correct spelling mistake.
I believe that the Windows EULA contains a very similar clause. Checking some of my other installed softwares EULA’s shows almost identical clauses. As does the three other AV products, the commercial VPN and the FW software in use at my work.
Why do they all have it? I believe, and please bear in mind that this is purely my personal opinion, that this type of clause is included in EULAs because of the almost infinite variations that can occur on the Windows platform. The breadth of possible permutations would be a minefield for any form of guarantee. Most of the EULAs I’ve looked at tonight contain wording that pretty much amounts to a warranty of suitability and/or functionality, and exclude liability in 100% of cases I’ve checked.
IMHO, it just a bit of ■■■■-covering, but it would be hard to get a plain English explanation of such an outbreak of legalese.
I have no experience of any user agreement that existed between PSC and users of the PSC authored versions of BOClean, as I have only come in contact with BOClean since its acquisition by Comodo.
Do you have a copy of the PSC authored EULA?
Please understand I’m not trying to poke holes in anything you have said, I’m merely trying to understand what has gone before so I will have a better appreciation of where we are now.
Cheers,
Ewen
The concern with the Comodo Indemnification clause is that I the user of Comodo BoClean can be held liable for any legal problems that Comodo has say with malware vendors suing them. I can be made to pay for Comodo’s legal costs! And I am bound by that clause for life even if I read the Eula and then decide not to install BoClean or I install it and then think more about the Eula and uninstall it. That is how I and many others read this clause. Have you read the dslr thread? Fatness’s comments are compelling. If there is another explanation for why this clause is there let’s hear it.
As you can see, there is no such clause in PSClean’s BoClean Eula.
"BOClean Customer information
Thank you very much for purchasing BOClean! If you wish, please take a
moment when you’re online to email us at support@nsclean.com so we have a
way of contacting you for updates upgrades,and bugfixes if any should be
required. To do this, please use “REGISTER BOCLEAN” on the subject: line.
If you DO NOT send us a “register” email, we assume that you will check
our site often to see if there are updates, and new critical upgrade
version releases. The website is at: http://www.nsclean.com
There are no “cookies,” “scripts” or other types of attempts to monitor
our web page. You must opt-in to receive any of our mailings. You can be
sure of your privacy when visiting the above URL.
BOCLEAN END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
Privacy Software Corporation retains all rights and ownership of the
intellectual property provided to you the user as compiled object code.
This means that you are entitled to use the software as you see fit but
all of the work that went into creating this software remains the
property of the author at all times. It is a violation of this license to
disassemble, reverse engineer or to incorporate any portion of the code
into any other product you or anyone else may generate. Privacy Software
Corporation is the official grantor of these license rights.
In addition, it is a violation of the license to make copies of the
software for anyone else but yourself for your own use. A backup copy is
permissible as desired by the licensee, but any and all such backups
shall remain in licensee’s possession and control at all times and may
not be given to anyone else. Please be aware that the software contains a
signature within which will make us aware of where pirated copies came
from so please don’t entertain the thought of handing copies to your
friends.
BUSINESS LICENSE: You are permitted to install BOClean on the designated
number of single machines as detailed on the accompanying license
certificate or original purchase order for a period of THREE (3) years.
This includes all support and version upgrades released within the three
year period. Recipients of software under license distribution may only use
the software on the system upon which it was ORIGINALLY downloaded. No
roaming use license is implied. No extension of the license for personal
use by assignees is permitted. Contact us for sliding-scale pricing on
license expansion. Renewals will be billed at 50% of the original price.
CONSUMER/RETAIL LICENSE: You are granted the right to install the
BOClean files on any and all personal machines within the purchaser’s
household, defined as spouse, children under 21. This license may be
installed on computers on a typical (under 5) home network. No roaming
use license is implied.
U.S. GOVERNMENT RESTRICTED RIGHTS: If this product is acquired under the
terms of a (i) Civilian Agency Contract - use, reproduction or disclosure
is subject to FAR 52.227-19(a) through (d) and restrictions set forth in
the accompanying end user agreement; and (ii) DoD Contract - use,
duplication or disclosure by the Government is subject to the terms of
this license unless superseded by 252.227-7013(c)(1)(ii). The address of
the manufacturer of record can be found at the bottom of this document.
EXPORTS AND RESALE OF THIS PRODUCT ARE CONTROLLED. You may not export or
reexport the BOlean Software or any underlying information or technology
except in full compliance with all United States and other applicable
laws and regulations. In particular, but without limitation, none of this
Software or underlying information or technology may be exported or
reexported (i) into (or to a national or resident of) Cuba, Haiti,
Libya,Yugoslavia, North Korea, Iran, or Syria or Iraq, (ii) to anyone on
the US Treasury Department’s list of Specially Designated Nationals or
the US Commerce Department’s Table of Deny Orders. You are agreeing to
the foregoing and you are representing and warranting that you are not
located in, under control of, or a national or resident of any such
country or on any such list. Any such violations must and will be
reported to the Commerce Department.
BOCLEAN DOCUMENTATION POLICY:
Because internet trojan horse programs represent a unique threat, we
have deliberately not included documentation with the BOClean program.
All documentation for the BOClean product is maintained solely online at
our site rather than included with the product as a result of the need to
keep documentation timely.
Because of the likelihood of additional risks in the future, we have
decided that it is in your best interests to have rapid access to
information that may not be available at the time you receive the BOClean
product. Stale documentation and trojan horse datafiles are useless and
thus the need for us to provide timely documentation and updates in this
manner.
Therefore, you should check as often as possible at our website at
Free Malware Removal and Scanner 2022 | Best Anti-Malware for updates or additional information
regarding internet trojan horse programs and advisories to help you
maintain the security which BOClean provides in its current design. In
order to provide privacy as well as the highest level of security to you,
BOClean does not make calls on the internet without your direct
involvement. It is up to you to be certain to keep your trojan horse data
file up to date by regularly visiting our support site. Privacy Software
Corporation assumes no liability for your failure to maintain your
BOCLEAN.XVU trojan horse datafile by replacing it as often as possible
with the most current version which we provide at no charge to you.
BOCLEAN UPGRADE/MAINTENANCE CONTRACT AND “BUG” POLICY:
It is Privacy Software Corporation’s policy to provide bug fixes for our
products at no charge to our customers by return email or the Extended
Download Service from Digital River should a problem occur due to
mistakes or omissions in our code that causes problems. We cannot however
assure that our code will work with new versions of trojan horses which
are released after this version has been released. Keep your trojan horse
data file (BOCLEAN.XVU) current by using BOClean’s automatic downloading
or manually download updates daily. We post update notices on the website
and on many Internet security-related websites and forums.
Version series 2 and 4 BOClean Maintenance Agreement:
Privacy Software Corporation will provide upgrades deemed critical to
your continued protection at no charge upon the user’s request to
upgrade@nsclean.com. Users must be verified against our customer database.
We will not upgrade any customer who does not appear in the database on
the date of their request, must re-request. We will notify any user that
has registered with us upon its release. Value based, or feature based
version releases will be offered in the future at half the regular price
to our customers.
Updates of signatures for known trojan horse programs are available on
our FTP site at no charge.
BOClean is sold only through authorized distributors. Please contact the
place of purchase for information on upgrade pricing and delivery
information. Site license customers should contact Privacy Software
Corporation directly. No retail sales are provided through Privacy
Software Corporation and orders from individuals must be declined. Please
visit our web site at http://www.nsclean.com for further details.
BOCLEAN LIMITED WARRANTEE:
BOClean is sold with the understanding that BOClean will disable and
remove previously uploaded and installed copies of known, covered trojan
horse programs on an individual’s computer system. As soon as Privacy
Software Corporation becomes aware of new trojan horse programs and is
able to dissect and study new trojans, new BOCLEAN.XVU trojan horse data
files will be made available on our support site for download. It is YOUR
responsibility to visit our site often and make certain that your
existing data file is current.
If BOClean does not meet your expectations you are entitled to a refund
of the total amount submitted if you return the BOClean install disk to
the original place of purchase within 30 days. An affadavit or letter of
destruction may be required as proof of downloadable file deletion from
the user’s system at the discretion of PSC or the retailer. The return
policy of the retailer superceeds this guarantee, excluding purchases
through www.nsclean.com.
In order to comply with general business law and to keep our attorneys
happy, the following terms and conditions apply if the licensee is not
willing to abide by the terms and conditions set forth above:
LIMITED WARRANTY. Privacy Software Corporation warrants that (a) the
BOCLEAN SOFTWARE PRODUCT will perform substantially in accordance with
the accompanying written materials for a period of thirty (30) days from
the date of receipt, and (b) the magnetic media accompanying the BOCLEAN
SOFTWARE PRODUCT will be free from defects in materials and workmanship
under normal use and service for a period of thirty (30) days from the
date of receipt. Some states and jurisdictions do not allow limitations
on duration of an implied warranty, and thus the above limitation might
not apply to you. To the extent allowed by applicable law, implied
warranties on the BOCLEAN SOFTWARE media, if any, are limited
to thirty (30) days.
CUSTOMER REMEDIES. Privacy Software Corporation’s entire liability and
your exclusive remedy shall be, at the author’s or retailer’s option, either
(a) return of the price paid, or (b) repair or replacement of the BOCLEAN
SOFTWARE media that does not meet the author’s Limited Warranty
and which is returned to the retailer or author. This Limited Warranty is
void if failure of the BOCLEAN SOFTWARE media has resulted from
accident or abuse. Replacement media will be warranted for the remainder
of the original warranty period or thirty (30) days, whichever is longer.
NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. To the maximum extent permitted
by applicable law, in no event shall Privacy Software Corporation be
liable for any incidental, indirect, or consequential damages whatsoever
(including, without limitation, damages for loss of business profits,
business interruption, loss of business information, or any other
pecuniary loss) arising out of the use of or inability to use the
software product, even if Privacy Software Corporation has been advised
of the possibility of such damages. Since some states and jurisdictions
do not allow the exclusion or limitation of liability for consequential
or incidental damages, the above limitation might not apply to you.
NO OTHER WARRANTIES. To the maximum extent permitted by applicable law,
Privacy Software Corporation disclaims all other warrantees, either
express or implied, including, but not limited to, implied warranties of
merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose, with regard to the
software product and accompanying magnetic media. This LIMITED WARRANTEE
gives you specific legal rights. You may have others which vary from
jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
GOVERNING LAW. This license will be governed by the laws of the State of
New York, United States of America as they are applied to agreements
between New York residents entered into and to be performed entirely
within New York. The United Nations Convention on Contracts for the
International Sale of Goods is SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMED.
SEVERABILITY. In the event of invalidity of any provision of this
license, the parties agree that such invalidity shall not affect the
validity of the remaining portions of this license.
ENTIRE AGREEMENT. This is the entire agreement between you and Privacy
Software Corporation which supersedes any prior agreement or
understanding, whether written or oral, relating to the subject matter of
this license.
Software Privacy Corporation is NOT an authorized developer for
Microsoft Corp. This product is in no way connected with the Windows95,
98, NT, 2000, ME or XP software or its copyright, trademark or patent
holders. This product was generated without knowledge of any Microsoft
trade secrets nor involvement with anyone who was a party to a Microsoft
non-disclosure agreement in a clean-room engineering environment.
Algorithms and operations of BOClean are the intellectual property and
exclusive trade secrets of Privacy Software Corporation. Any
infringements or replications of the functions of the BOClean product in
any manner will be prosecuted vigorously.
Manufacturer of record:
Privacy Software Corporation
Nancy McAleavey, CEO
P.O. Box 311
Voorheesville, NY 12186
nancymca@privsoft.com
http://www.privsoft.com
Technical support:
NSClean Privacy Software
Kevin McAleavey, V.P., Technology
P.O. Box 311
Voorheesville, NY 12186
support@nsclean.com
kevinmca@nsclean.com"
Thanks for posting the original BOClean EULA. I’ll go through it overnight.
Re. “you” having to pay Comodo’s legal costs, if you’re referring to this section;
Comodo shall have the right to participate in any defense by you of a third-party claim related to your use of the Program, with counsel of our choice at your own expense. You shall have sole responsibility to defend Comodo against any claim, but you must receive Comodo’s prior written consent regarding any related settlement. The terms of this paragraph will survive any termination or cancellation of this Agreement.
I think you may have misinterpreted their intent. My understanding of it is that if YOU are sued by a third party, Comodo CAN participate alongside you, providing you agree to their participation (no-one can forcibly become party to a civil suit, unless USA laws are as wonky as some of their celebrities ;)), but if you agree, then you agree to absorb their legal costs.
If my interpretation is right, just say NO.
I’d love to hear an official response to this topic.
I just found another interesting angle in the Half Life 2 EULA (I realise this is a bit off-topic, but it just took my interest).
Usually, EULAs specify that the license to use a piece of software resides with the legal owner of the purchased license. If I buy a piece of software, install it, decide I don’t want it, uninstall it completely from my PC and give the software and all included documentation to someone else, they are now considered the legal owner (Before anyone jumps up and down, this specifically excludes licenses which are tied to specific hardware environments - like XP OEM). This, unfortunately is not the case with Half Life 2. According to their EULA, I’m still the legal owner and the other person can’t ever legally install the software, even on my PC. The license is absolutely non-transferable. It’s mine until I die, even if I don’t want it. Wonder how they snuck that one past?
Cheers,
Ewen
edit : spelling, grammar and punctuation