Why CCE is heading the right way and CIS is not

Evolution has gone one way, CIS another. People are hunting what they feel confortable with: simplicity. The chrome browser is one example of that, the antivirus instead of the hips, windows instead of linux are some other examples. A wast majority pick the simplest “solution”, despite whatever functionallity they may miss out on.

CIS offers serious protection, but it also offer a bunch of options that people find difficult to understand. This is why many pick softwares such as MSE, its easy to understand and won’t bother the user. We can see the simplicity in action on the very web, these days people don’t write a wall of text on a forum they post 180 chars on twitter. People has to think even less on facebook, where pressing “like” is all you do.

While others struggle to make their software simpler comodo is making their software cluttered with options. Even the firewall has a sandbox these days, (witch I thankfully could disable).

I think for future versions simplicity should be the main focus. Especially these days when windows are becoming more and more secure and less and less “patch” friendly. I think windows 8 will be so safe that people will think “why bother with extra security” and if its even slightly annoying to install/operate they will skip installing extra security programs all togheter. Due to the simplisity loving nature posessed by majority.

CCE is a software that is heading in the right direction due to its clean interface and it does what its designed to do. And not a bunch of other stuff, (eg fight cookies). Keep it that way and Im sure CCE will be of great success. CCE is just pure seckzyness as its designed right now (tho I don’t use it) a firewall installing a sandbox however is not.

Personally, I couldn’t agree less, apart from the part about people becoming more and more lazy and not wanting to find the time to learn.

Seriously, it makes me laugh when people complain about the alleged complexity of security applications, then in the next breath, complain when their system is allegedly compromised, simply because they couldn’t be bothered to spend a short time, understanding the product(s) they’ve chosen to protect themselves with.

As for CIS being complex, well, yes it can be, if the user so chooses. Turn everything on and crank-up the security levels, delete the TVL and have fun. Alternatively, stick with the ‘safe mode’ defaults and you’ll hardly ever be bothered, particularly if you’ve spent an hour or two training it.

As for CCE “heading in the right direction due to its clean interface and it does what its designed to do. And not a bunch of other stuff,” but it does do a whole lot more, but you’d have to dig a little deeper, than simply looking at one screen and trusting whatever is presented there.

It’s the same with virtually everything, it’s what you know, what you want to know and how much you’re prepared to learn. If you’re not prepared to even try and understand, what you probably use on a daily basis, then I find it quite sad and to some extent, an indictment of the dumbed down society, in which some Netizens find themselves.

Whether or not it’s sad, or an indictment, doesn’t make it any less a valid assessment.
Look at the automobile. The more reliable they become, the less people open the bonnet. People drive them till they stop rather than spending “a short time”…

Enthusiasts care. Users use. it’s just true.

Sorry, doesn’t wash I’m afraid. Unless you’ve had a chauffeur driven vehicle all your life, there would have been a point where you learnt to drive, whether that was five minutes or six months, you went through it and you probably did so because it was something you wanted to do.

Beyond that, you probably put petrol in the tank, more than likely fill the tyres with air and you may even change the oil from time to time, that’s not being an “enthusiast”, nor is learning the basics of Internet security.

This is an interesting thread with valid points on both sides.

There’s no disputing the fact that we now live in the age of instant gratification.Whereas years ago folks would battle away for long periods struggling through problems using trial and error,nowadays within a couple of clicks we can all be Google experts on any subject you care to mention.

I believe that,in general people are becoming more aware about pc security and malware,if only because the sheer prevalence makes it likely that, even if not hit themselves,everyone will know someone that’s been attacked.The problem for all vendors is maximizing protection whilst staying within the “irritability threshhold”.People are aware that they need some form of protection,but they want the nuts and bolts taken care of without much bother at all.

In the longer term what’s needed is higher level AI being built into products,perhaps even to technician level.In the meantime new layers need to be implemented as silently as possible.

@andy: I bet there will always be some people, like me, who don’t care to have their security controlled by an “AI”. And I’m not sure how you think this will be done.

But I agree with the rest…people are lazy. Most want something they can set and forget, and CIS doesn’t always do that.

I hope that there’ll always be the option for power users to control their own security setup and reckon that’ll be the case.

As for the improved AI I spoke of,I’m not thinking computers will all turn into “HAL”(yet),more like an evolution of current BB technology.I envisage a far wider array of criteria for determining whether or not a file is malicious,possibly along the lines of HitmanPro and it’s “internet chatter” rating for one thing.

AI will probably never be perfect in deciding the validity of a file but then again the end user clicking allow or deny isn’t perfect either.

I disagree that CIS is heading the wrong way. Any full-featured product is by nature complex. The hard part is making the complexity easy to use and I think that Comodo has done this quite well while managing to include class-leading features and a huge amount of flexibility. A CIS installation using default settings gives better protection than most other Internet Security Suites with little user input. Power users can spend hours tweaking D+ and Sandbox settings, rules for individual programs, rules for IP addresses etc., and even using another AV to get arguably the best protection available. I am not saying CIS is perfect. It still generates some unnecessary alerts and not all features are as flexible as some users want (e.g. editing or disabling the TVL).

If you want simplicity I suggest MSE with the Windows firewall which is considered by some to give reasonable protection with NO alerts and NO user input.

I think you are pretty much adding to why CCE is heading the right way and CIS isn’t. You seem to have experience supporting my thesis, a reality where users don’t bother to learn and protect themself and complain once compromised. You laught at this reality and think they should bother more learning their software. However they don’t bother and we end up with reality where people don’t care and don’t want it complex.

CCE is however great since it focuses on cleaning, once compromised people begin to question and may seek help. Here there is room to get users intressted in a simple comodo software to solve the problem. Once problem is solved the user probably want to get back surfing, chatting and playing games (possible work). And the intresst in checking for latest software, workarounds and “tweaks” falls flat.

Also comodo has once more released a patch to CIS that makes CIS unusable for a bunch of people: https://forums.comodo.com/empty-t70786.0.html

Pretty much forcing user intrevention in a world were people don’t want to be botherd. This might be a simple problem to solve for a computer geek but for a family mother this probably result in a headake. CIS should aim for simplicity and a set and forget approatch. However its not, usually every X month there is a patch wreacking computers for users, and a beta witch developers ignored problems posted by users.

I still think for future versions simplicity must be the main focus. Especially since the OS itself is becoming so resistant to malware that installing extra software for protection may be a questionable thing to do.

I belive doing something else than simplicity is working against the current. I don’t see why fighting buggy software isn’t a higher priority. A patch fixing the new bugs may be quick to make but its really bothering for the user and even 1 day of system hanging/crashing/lagging due to CIS is too much for many. People don’t want their final version to act as if it where beta and every new patch can cuse system problems.

Automobile technology is “old”. Back in the early days one would end up under the bonnet every couple of miles.

Comparing a highly established “old” technology with a still young and developing technology like computer technology makes no sense to me.

Automatic sandboxing surely made CIS a much more userfriendly program

CCE is however great since it focuses on cleaning, once compromised people begin to question and may seek help. Here there is room to get users intressted in a simple comodo software to solve the problem. Once problem is solved the user probably want to get back surfing, chatting and playing games (possible work). And the intresst in checking for latest software, workarounds and "tweaks" falls flat.
You seem to think that default of CIS are not enough and that CCE is an easy tool. Interesting to say the least....
Also comodo has once more released a patch to CIS that makes CIS unusable for a bunch of people: https://forums.comodo.com/empty-t70786.0.html
The referred bug report needs to be more precise to fit the criteria for a proper report. The other topics I cannot immediately judge at this moment.
Pretty much forcing user intrevention in a world were people don't want to be botherd. This might be a simple problem to solve for a computer geek but for a family mother this probably result in a headake. CIS should aim for simplicity and a set and forget approatch.
Current defaults are pretty good if you were to ask me.
However its not, usually every X month there is a patch wreacking computers for users, and a beta witch developers ignored problems posted by users.
Improving testing never hurts.
I still think for future versions simplicity must be the main focus. Especially since the OS itself is becoming so resistant to malware that installing extra software for protection may be a questionable thing to do.
Then why are you still using CIS when the OS is secure enough? ;)
I belive doing something else than simplicity is working against the current. I don't see why fighting buggy software isn't a higher priority. A patch fixing the new bugs may be quick to make but its really bothering for the user and even 1 day of system hanging/crashing/lagging due to CIS is too much for many. People don't want their final version to act as if it where beta and every new patch can cuse system problems.
My view on technology: we are all beta testers for a promised yet unknown better future when using complex technology..... technology speaks an exact language and has exact procedures that fall short in complex everyday reality..... ;D

Actually, if people were to spend half as much time learning to use their chosen security products as they do learning to play a game or using a word processor, there’d be no need for products like CCE.

Also comodo has once more released a patch to CIS that makes CIS unusable for a bunch of people: https://forums.comodo.com/empty-t70786.0.html

Pretty much forcing user intrevention in a world were people don’t want to be botherd. This might be a simple problem to solve for a computer geek but for a family mother this probably result in a headake.

This is off topic and moreover, not limited to security products or Comodo. It’s an unfortunate fact of life that any reasonably sophisticated piece of software will, at some point, cause problems, for some people, with certain configurations. The fact that a few have had problems, does not make it a global issue.

CIS should aim for simplicity and a set and forget approatch. However its not, usually every X month there is a patch wreacking computers for users, and a beta witch developers ignored problems posted by users.

I still think for future versions simplicity must be the main focus. Especially since the OS itself is becoming so resistant to malware that installing extra software for protection may be a questionable thing to do.

I belive doing something else than simplicity is working against the current. I don’t see why fighting buggy software isn’t a higher priority. A patch fixing the new bugs may be quick to make but its really bothering for the user and even 1 day of system hanging/crashing/lagging due to CIS is too much for many. People don’t want their final version to act as if it where beta and every new patch can cuse system problems

Still off topic, but as I said in a previous post, CIS can be pretty much installed and left, or it can be ‘tweaked’ to ones satisfaction.

The point is, making a piece of software that would be totally foolproof in identifying and removing malware or making correct decisions about the validity of a request to connect to some remote site, isn’t likely to exist, ever. That means, no matter how simplistic a product, at least as far as user interaction, becomes, there will always be a need for some decision making by the user.

If a user is unable, through wilful ignorance, to make a correct judgement regarding a piece of software on their computer today, they will have the same problem in the future.

I’m in no way suggesting everyone should become an instant geek or technophile or that, where possible, some additional simplicity, would be a bad thing. I just think people should take a little more responsibility for their on-line behaviour and protection.

I agree with that. The popups was decreased and the user got less botherd by CIS. This was one step in the right path. However usability should be of major concern and in focus for further versions of CIS as well if it want to find its way in to that mother who don’t understand computers that well. Every little usability improvment is should be counted for and considerd to be implemented. So CIS can be for anyone.

CCE is in a diffrent field. When there is a problem that MUST be fixed, people will find some time. Fighting malware where there is none is bothersome for many I belive. Due to that CIS should not bother a user unless needed (I guess that something being worked on).

I think its like when you fail to connect online. People who never alter those configurations all of a sudden will, cus they got no good option.

I said the OS is BECOMING. Its not yet, however on my next computer hopefully running windows 8 Ill probably just run the OS. Should do fine with that after I switched my IP and go “low profile”. = )

Probably correct. Still this is “IF” its not how it is, and stuff point to that most people won’t bother to learn their security software or basics in security and safe surfing.

Its a issue since its destroying users expetations, and may also result in major disslike and lost trust in the software. Bugs must be keept to a minimum, even if as you said there will be bugs.

CIS can be a software built for reality or it can chose to be a software built on knowlege the users don’t have and won’t bother to collect.

knowlege the users don't have and won't bother to collect.

End of discussion.

It’s software, not magic. It should be usable by the user whatever his level. If you know what you are doing good software let’s you be a power user. if you don’t know what you are doing, it allows you to select defaults and avoids distracting you by messages you don’t understand.

CIS gets better grades on the former than the latter, but recently at times has made it harder for a knowledgeable user to exercise judgment. (Heck, I still miss the choices of standalone programs that have to be tweaked to run together! I probably prefer having the choices of custom configuration over out of the box mediocrity!)

Other software out there does better on ease of use, but at the cost of much less horsepower. So, I support Comodo in it’s basic model and like many here will continue to gripe while appreciating what they do well.

I have never used this button or shortcut or whatever you wanna call it… 88)

the bug report section has a pretty good amount of topics, I suggest starting with them if they wanna improve the software :slight_smile:

You probably didn’t use Windows before the mouse became ubiquitous.

If it doesn’t, then “step away from the vehicle” and consider only MS technology.
As a limited user on my 64-bit W7 “Home Premium” laptop with MSE, the W7 firewall and IE all working together, and automatic backup periodically making full images of my installation, I would call that at least a little bit of development in security since Windows 3.1.

For good or bad, one of the objectives of technology is to become as pervasive as possible, to ensure the longevity of the income stream. One of the main ways they achieve this is by becoming as transparent, to the average user, as possible.

Primarily, this is done by advances and refinements to the UI and increasing facile usability within the technology.

I still think the concept of a user definable UI level is ideal. Have an app install with the simplest UI as the default (retaining all functionality under the hood), while allowing the user to select which of several levels (each allowing more exposure to the underlying technology) they feel most confortable with.

Ewen :slight_smile:

What is CCE?.

Comodo Cleaning Essentials (CCE) + KillSwitch - CCE