I take on board your views/statements. Thank you taking the time to write the long post. I really appreciate it.
I did promise to have one of the best AVs within 12 months of launch, we are making very good progress towards achieving this goal.
thanks
melih
To Creasy
CAV has improved way alot! If i remembered correctly CAV version 2 has always been in Beta stage and has not gone stable yet, but this version 3 is impressive.
Although I have started using CAV ver.2 about two years ago, I did not use it on my work/home computer, I have used it only in my standby machine because it does miss quite a number of virus. Version 3 is different - if you read my posting, you may have realised that it is comparable to that of Avira & NOD32. Melih has a goal - to make it the best free standing AV in the world. It takes some time.
(Even Avira, AVG took some time to climb up the ladder)
============================================
Now to Melih
I do agree on some of the points made by Creasy.
Comodo Firewall is indeed top notch. I have no qualms about it.
CAV version 3 has got to be user-friendly if you wanted the main stream people to use it Confidently. And yes, people who uses free AV does pay for them if they find it worthy. And he (by the way, Creasy, are you a He or a She?) is right to say that the issue is with beginners. Most home PC users (which includes me) are beginners.
In fact, I started posting in the forum because someone posted that you had the intention to release CAV for the test during September with another post stating that you intended to make it top in the world. Being top not only involves good protection, it also includes good support (paid or community) and most of all user-friendliness (since home pc user probably won’t have the time to read and post in forums to learn to use it).
In short, having consumer (and prosumer) in mind is important in software development. :P0l
Which I would choose to believe you had this in mind already.
Creasy, this is not only my thinking, av companies try to sell their products, I am using their firewall and Av and never been happy, before using comodo av, I had avast with email scanner off, system ran better,one of the main problems with OE & windows mail getting corrupted is the email scanners, so I do hope melih don’t include it. Like I said emails are just a file. Like I said
“Email Scanning by any anti-virus is not recommended because the harm and delay that scanning can cause don’t justify the minimal (if any) benefits to be derived. One of the biggest problem caused by email virus scanners is corrupted Outlook Express DBX (data) files. If these files become corrupted, whatever mail you have stored in them will be unreadable. Email virus scanning is the number one cause of corrupted DBX files; and hence the biggest cause of unrecoverable email. Other problems are minor but they’re a nuisance: Aggravating delays in sending or receiving email being among the top nuisances”
I don’t trust paparitive report 100%.
It was just an example. But the report gives us average informations that is popular or not.
Like I told you, you don’t fully understand about E-mail system.
You can’t say that again if you are working at the company which provides you company based on e-mail system
(e-mail server, there are security solutions for e-mail server by way of suggestion).
If your scanner causes too many file corruptions, check your computer system first not the antivirus tool.
The corruption of DBX file is not the problem of the antivirus tool. Most of corruptions are originated from your
computer system.
I earnestly recommed you study e-mail system, file system, antivirus scanning system, malware structure etc please.
Then you can understand what I’m talking about.
Also there are e-mail back up fucntion in the Outlook Express, 3rd party solutions to recover corrupted files.
DBX file is just DB for Outlook Express by way of suggestion.
If you still get file corruption problem, I recommed you change e-mail software or check your hardware and
software problem including OS.
Melih should add e-mail scanning function for maximum security.
Hahahah ;D
Hey Creasy, thanks for the update. Now I know you are man 
Hmm… how about including Email Scanner but not activating it by default, and have the option to turn it on?
I give an example, on digital SLR camera Canon 40D - it has a ISO 3200 (H), but it is not enabled by default and it is hidden away. Unless you read the manual or you got from somewhere, you would probably not notice it.
Would it be good to both Creasy & Ronnycopeh (how about Melih) ?
lol
Now you got it. I’m a man ;D ;D ;D
Hmm.... how about including Email Scanner but not activating it by default, and have the option to turn it on?I give an example, on digital SLR camera Canon 40D - it has a ISO 3200 (H), but it is not enabled by default and it is hidden away. Unless you read the manual or you got from somewhere, you would probably not notice it.
Would it be good to both Creasy & Ronnycopeh (how about Melih) ?
Most of antivirus tools do the same way.
It’s always optional.
Hi Guys,
I will just comment on e-mail scanning by AV (sorry that it is a bit OT, but since the issue was discussed here - I may be forgiven ;))
First, in support to what ronnycopeh wrote :-TU
Real-time E-mail scanning must be disabled in AV – any AV. It is just a disaster waiting to happen – time bomb – one day you as many victims already will lose all their email irrecoverable.
“onAcsess” feature of AV and “Off-line”/on demand scanning of e-mail folders is sufficient and enough.
There are hundreds articles already over the years about that .There shouldn’t be questions about that, as I understand. Many are never using this feature, I never used it. I always being notified by AV and/or malware scanner about suspects in e-mails.
Examples:
http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx (#3)
I’ll put below just a few quotes and links regarding the subject
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/31904470/cant-receive-or-send-ema.aspx
Pa Bear’s credentials as a Mail and Security expert
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
Disable email scanning by your anti-virus application. It provides no additional protection, it may be causing the problems, and even Symantec says it's not necessary: Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses that are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have the most recent virus definitions.
In addition of not using AV e-mail scan as a cause of corruption there are advices for Outlook users how to manage Identities and avoiding automatic compacting emails; not using Main InBox and Sent Box as a storage but rather moving messages from there into specially created folders, etc. Here is a very good quote from
http://www.vistaheads.com/forums/microsoft-public-windows-vista-mail/198561-disabling-email-scanning.html
[Quote]There is some anecdotal evidence that the newer Windows Live Mail is more resistant to corruption from aggressive antivirus programs, so an alternative for you would be to try it
[/quote]
More resistant? Well done, Live Mail! … but why one should wait for the antivirus corrupting email?
“The Most Common Cause of Corruption” by Tom Koch from Microsoft
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/community/columns/filecorruption.mspx#EOAAC
(read the main page as well)
…etc,… hundreds of good articles to support the necessary “Turn OFF”.
Find articles and discussions like above by Googling e.g.: “do I need antivirus email scanning”; “disabling email scanning” and so on.
So, if the feature is not implemented in CAV - that is the first AV that got it right! :-TU
Please, don’t spend time and development resources on unneeded and potenialy dangerous feature
Cheers everybody!
It’s a total newbie’s complaining.
If you really care about Corruptions, don’t use it.
If you really want maximum security use it.
And if you worry about any Corruptions, slow system, unstable system etc, do not use any AV tools and any other firewalls.
Or upgrade PC.
That’s better for those kind of users.
It’s just same as complaining for Kaspersky Antivirus, a long time ago.
‘Hey~ Defend+ makes my PC slow, unstable, lots of pop-ups. How can I do?’
What are you going to do?
It’s necessary for other people.
If you are working at the company which requires network and pc security in the office, you can’t say that again.
There are many companies don’t care about security.That’s why a lot of network threats happened.
Now a days, many companies have Security Rule at the office.
They even scan mail server. What we call Server Side E-mail and File scanning for security.
Also, they are monitoring in/out Packets with packet sniffing tools.
(do not say ‘Wireshark’ or ‘Ethereal’. Mid size companies don’t use them.
Lots of companies use Netscout Sniffer(old name: Sniffer Pro, Network general Sniffer)
in the real world.)
Do you think why they do that?
What is the better for security?
Do you want your important data be stolen by hackers?
or
Do you want to worry about file corruptions than stolen data?
For instance, why there are many options in CIS?
Do you turn on the all of options? or just turn on the options you need?
If sombody doesn’t use the specific option, is the sepecific option unnecessary?
But, someone needs that option.
Let me show the another example.
You use a NIC right?
There is an option , the name is ‘checksum offload’.
If you turn it off, it helps you playing online games and P2P works.
But there is another problem, CPU works instead of NIC.
If you turn it on, NIC works instead of CPU. So it’s better for CPU little bit right?
But there is the other problem.
It you turn it on, you will have corrupted packets when you sniff the packets sometimes.
So what is your best selection?
There is no best selection.
It’s UP TO YOU.
My point is
If you want Maximum security, turn it on.
If you don’t want Maximum security, turn it off.
If you really worry about Corruptions, turn it off.
Finally, if you still worry about file corruptions or any other problem,
What about making new AV tools that only has 2 buttons ‘turn on’ ‘turn off’?
Nice… tool huh?
That’s it.
[at] Creasy
Well, few people here and thousands out there including experts in E-mail Security known all over the world are saying that it is not needed – your argument is – I am a “complaining newbie”.
Where did you see complains ??? That was rather statement supporting point of view of another user - ronnycopeh, who replied to you earlier.
I will just say that I am not a newbie at all and I have personal contacts with those experts (probably newbies as well according to you).
As for my experience with computers as a whole you don’t worry about that please (and you shouldn’t).
I will stop discussion when it’s going personal.
I have no interest in such “conversions”
Other things I am not considering as arguments.
Finally, if you still think that the useless and potentially dangerous feature helps, well - you have rights to think so.
Finally, email scanning has nothing to do with stilling data protection… and other stuff…
Thanks
SiberLynx,
thanks, this is just a different of opinion all the name calling don’t meant nothing, Melih, has the last saying and it wasn’t included and I hope it don’t and I will continue to use this great Av. I really didn’t mean to anger anyone, thanks for the chatter.
Email scanning doesn’t increase your security level any more than the current on-access scanning that CIS already does.
Any attachment that you get sent through email will be scanned when you attempt to open it. It is really quite irrelevant if the attachment is scanned when it is received or when it is accessed. The net result is exactly the same!
Having an infected file sitting on your hard drive does not impact your security in the slightest as long as it is scanned when it attempts to run. As long as it is inert, it can sit there as long as it wants and you aren’t at risk.
HeffeD.
My point is the codes in the TEXT, not about the files.
There are hacking codes(sometimes hard to detect or undetectable) that
automatically infected if you open the e-mail. If the antivirus tool doesn’t scan the code
in the HTML,Java script etc, sometimes it hurts you.
Your AV tools and firewall can’t do anything if your pc is infected by that code.
Those codes connect you to zombie pc then download Rootkit in your HDD.
You can do nothing if the rootkit injected. If you figure rootkit out, it’s too late.
Your data will be transfered to hacker’s hand.
Some beginners click ‘allow’ even if CIS shows rootkit injection alerts.(shell code injection)
Please read following aticle.(that aticle is just an small example)
You will find 2 links at the link.
Isn’t this where D+ steps in? I always view my email in plaintext and never read email from unknown senders, but if D+ doesn’t catch my email program attempting to run scripts, then my trust in it is misplaced.
If the email program allow the execution of scripts that may damage the system then the problem is in the email program, i think
And if the email server scan the emails for malware…
My point is the codes in the TEXT, not about the files.
Codes in “texts” means nothing. You can open any malware code with your editor; have a look and enjoy - nothing malicious will ever happen…
There should be the way to execute the code and that is different. There must be host doing that (executing) and that’s what had to be caught by Defence+ and/or any Behavioral Analysis layer / “onExecution”/ etc., as HeffeD pointed correctly.
If the code sequence can be interpreted as potentially dangerous during scanning and or
“onAccess” of AV, which analyzes each and every file opened/accessed then we have to be notified.
At the same time that’s what AV will do anyway emails included… but the real-time as many are pointing out does not increase your security it is just interfere and eventually damages data therefore has to be disabled (I hope you read at least a bit from those articles referred)
If you ask IT how e-mails are delivered on a corporate level you will find out that the server maintenance of received e-mails is different in this respect.
Emails are delivered into coworkers inboxes after the maintenance and even then the local AV is active but e-mail scanning locally on a clients is Off.
Thanks
P.S. *** added *** Sorry thejoedoe, I missed your post. Sure you are right :-TU +1 to both points you made. Cheers.
Don’t think everybody does as we do.
It’s very dangerous belief.
What’s the difference?
There are many beginners who don’t know how to open e-mail as a plain text format
even if you and we know that we can open e-mail with plain text format.
I don’t think that’s a good idea ,applying your opinion to all of people.
E-mails can be generated by HTML. Have you ever received e-mails which based on HTML+Javascript?
For instance, it can include flash files for XSS attack.
Is there any idea how to prevent mutated malware which can’t be detected?
It can effect on people until it has been analyzed.
Do you really believe in most of AV tools can analyze that?
If you really think,
there is no Zeroday attack.
there is no mutated malware.
there is no such a confiker worm A,B,C,D…
there is no hacking attempt.and
The hackers don’t sell undetectable tools.
If you ask IT how e-mails are delivered on a corporate level you will find out that [b]the server maintenance[/b] of received e-mails [b]is different[/b] in this respect. Emails are delivered into coworkers inboxes after the maintenance and even then the [b]local[/b] AV is active but e-mail scanning locally on a clients is Off.
If you don’t have any experiences of building, administration, OP for e-mail server, you can think just you do.
‘Emails are delivered into coworkers inboxes after the maintenance’?
Who don’t know it?
If malicious e-mails bypass the maintenance, what are you going to do?
Do you think it can’t be happened?
Sorry…
But it happens alot in the Real World.
That’s why there are tons of Solutions(based on software,hardware) to prevent it in the Real world.
If they can’t find it or if server side e-mail scanner can’t find it?
Nobody can say ‘We are always safe’.
If we are always safe, we don’t have to use any AV tools, Firewalls.
Thank you.
I think that the main point of what several users here and security experts referred saying was not delivered to you. Well, as I said - you can have your own opinion.
But I do receive my emails in HTML only. And that is scanned when I am opening e-mail. The same applies to attachments. The same applies to scanning my whole Email folder when I am Deep Scanning. In addition I do have Custom Scan Sets for different on-demand scanners. One of those scansets is my e-mail folder.
As for other alleged attacks - that was said already as well all we have as different layers to catch behavioral suspect / onExecution / etc. will be done.
At the same time - yes - only what all that our current security knows at the moment will be hopefully caught. It cannot achieve more than that. That is why we never 100% safe.
But real-time e-mail scanning does not add anything in addition to the above (except potential damage).
And that is the point, which many people are trying to deliver
Thanks
There are different opinions between experts who you call them as experts.
But the attackers don’t agree with it.
Searching results don’t give you everything.
You can think in your dreams not in the real world.
Think deeply.
There are many people just same as you, so the hackers can take care of them easly, even with
social engineering.
Don’t think just like that. It makes you an easy target.
Think.
Somebody reinstalled windows oneday.
He’s working at the office.
He got a mail from strange person who is the hacker.
When he opened it, the virus removed all of antivirus tools.
Then injected malware or rootkit into his PC.
This is the real world. It is the one of crimes now a days.
It happens everyday all around world.
There is another world you don’t know.
Media and searching website doesn’t give you everything.
Please read following aticles if you have enough knowledges.
You will see what the real world is.
The press and any search engines don’t show you about this crime.
Stop talking to me or any other users here in this tone!
You will not prove anything by that.
All your examples have nothing to do with the issue.
The point is to get the difference between [b]real-time/b scanning during the delivery process and normal check which always taking place.
It (r-t) does the same considering the same AV nothing more than that as post-checking but interfere with the process itself.
Oh my god…
What are you talking about?
You can’t say just like that if you have enough knowledge about HTML, MHTML,Java script etc.
Are you talking about new Theory in your mind?
And don’t take other users get involved.
This talking is between you and me. 
Real time scan can’t catch all fo the code if e-mail is not opened.
That’s why we need e-mail scanning options.
That’s why NOD32 has e-mail scanning.
Make a phone call to the ESET, then ask them why nod32 has that option.
are they going to say ‘it’s a marketing tactic’?
I think I’ve talked to the wall…
I give up.
Just Believe in what you think.
That’s better for you.
I totally hands up.