Polish Tragedy

Hi all

I posted the similar message into another forum & I thought since I’m still a member of Comodo’s community I have to post it here as well

Let me express my deepest condolences to all Polish people , Polish nation.

Indescribable cannot be described, but I am sure that we all can feel - the horrible tragedy took place, despite that is probably not possible to comprehend – the horrific event itself and the coincidence, when one of the darkest pages of a history ever happened, had to be commemorated.

22,000 (officially, but there are “unofficial numbers too) Polish officers – the elite and the brightest were killed by communist secret services (NKVD, later KGB) police in 1940 in the Katyn forest.

For few years I lived near the Polish border in the western Ukraine, basically that was a small beautiful former Polish town.
I know the history very well. Many of my friends (who are now all over the world) can fluently speak Polish … unfortunately I can only understand speaking Polish language a bit…
Poland and polish people with their resistance to the regime and their intellectuals was a hope for freedom … “sometimes in that future”

Thousands of young brilliant people massacred.

60-80 millions innocent citizens of that communist empire were killed for just 70 years.
You literally walking on human bones wherever you making a step.

Please remember that;
Please remember and think when you are “forced to be brainwashed by ideology”
Please remember the people of any nationality – no difference are made when we human beings behaving repeatedly over and over through the history, not learning from the history and not accepting and appreciating the real values of what’s called “Life”

and definitely this days and days to come remember those Polish people of 1940 and 2010

My sincere condolences again

Everyone of course expresses his condoleances to Polish people, but the death of the Polish President has a positive counter-effect: it leads to speak even more, like you do yourself, of the terrible Katyn tragedy then if the President actually had commemorated it with a former KGB officer.

Official mourning not only in Poland, but also in several countries and also globally from European Community itself is perfectly normal.

These same strangers, or at least myself as a frenchman, are nevertheless quite surprised by the public mourning.

The Polish people choosed their President, and even if he was said to be “populist” and very conservative, it was their choice; but i don’t see, should similar circumstances happen, and even if he was as popular today then when he was elected, french people privately mourn President Sarkozy and our chief general officer.

But that is not the question, and neither is, as being said, the fact that the Presidential Tupolev was a very old plane: as far as i know, French Air Force still uses the very outdated Transall, and it is not known to crash more then modern planes.

This Tupolev was, in theory, under the orders of a very experimented Air Force pilot “the only one to rule aboard after God”, but the plane was not ILS equipped, and the weather was awfully bad.

After being disadvocated to do so by aerian control in Smolensk, the pilot crashed at his fourth landing try, and i cannot believe that any senior pilot would ever have done that from his own will.

Polish executives could have made the choice of landing 250 miles away as they were advised to, but would have been forced if doing so to drive these same 250 miles to the commemoratiion site, and have thus probably been killed by one of the major reasons to die, human dumbness: outside of the fact that some number of High Executives should never fly in the same plane even if it’s not an old Tupolev (it is forbidden in some countries), it seems quite obvious that the military pilot has obeyed a stupid order when his duty was to refuse the said order.

May they rest in peace. Especially chance people among them.
But L. Kachinski and Co should not have played such games as “Katyn case” raising dead and spitting in our nation’s face (btw, not only by “Katyn case”).

About Katyn tragedy and “Katyn case” (sorry, only in russian, tooo long to translate). Sequentially and calmly.

In couple of words. Developments due to which “version” was born (according to which soviets are guilty in dispatching polish officers) seem to be a planned and prepared fraud of Goebbels’ ministry.
When Smolensk was cleared of enemy a soviet special committee of inquiry arrived in Katyn and performed investigation. At the end of investigation foreign journalists were invited in Katyn. Results of investigation were reflected in two documents. Results tell about undoubted guilt of germans which were executioners in Katyn.

Brucine tries to bring Tu at the stage, but that plane is not related. Even slightly. But conclusions are correct:

I didn’t say that the plane was the culprit.

Neither did i really say that the pilot was: it is very hard for a officer to refuse some order coming from either or both the military and civil heads of his army.

In the option i believe to be the truth, the fault belongs to the ones that gave the order.

SS26, no one can actually contest that Katyn massacres were ordered by Stalin and Beria, it has been thorougly demonstrated, recognized by contemporary russian authorities, and the fact that Goebbels used it for ■■■■ propaganda does not make of nazis the culprits of this particular event because they were of so many others.

What is actually contestable is repentance.

President Chirac presented the excuses of France for Pétain and Vichy, and Gorbachev those of Russia for Katyn.

I suppose that you were like me not born when these events ocurred, and even my parents were still children.

No, France is not responsible of Pétain, Germany of ■■■■■■, Russia of Staline and people of these countries do not want today any repentance for what they did not do and consider themselves in their almost unanimity as unforgivable horrors.

It does however not allow one to say that commemorating such an event is “spitting in the face” of the great children of a nation who was not globally a culprit, but whose only a small oligarchy was, and still less to deny it or to assert a counter truth transfering the fault to another nation (in Katyn case) or, like in France, when the leader of an extreme right party regularly says, as to approve Pétain and national socialism, that “gas chambers have never existed”.

I have no repentance whatsoever, and we do not have to be ashamed today of being french, russian, german…; but this lack of repentance must go to the point where we accept to remember and commemorate even the horrors of some of our grand fathers, in order that such things could not happen again, and as an expression of our respect to all these people of foreign nations or other religions we now recognize in our community…and as our respect to the few, in France, Russia, or Germany, who fought against Pétain, ■■■■■■ or Staline oppression.

Hi Guys,

Well, my intention was not making this thread very political, but rather to stress the events that are tragic coincidence if the latter exists.

I do strongly disagree with the expression “spitting in our nation’s face", and as you know, SS26 I can tell you that in Russian too.

The events, the investigations, the interpretations, the ways to present them can be played the way that can fit the needs of politicians.

The fact that bullets “made in Germany” were found - says nothing…

That was the war between two fascist countries, rather 2 ■■■■ regimes

None of the educated and intelligent people would ever just blame Russians as a nation, when discussing many dark historical pages like that.
That country is the country of a hundreds of nationalities
That is misconception to call all russian speaking people “Russians” … as it’s probably similar misconception to say “Americans”, meaning the citizens of USA… but that is quite different discussion…

Politicians and those who want to add any specific “flavour” to any interpretation, adding to this & that “a special look-&-shape”, changing the perspectives whenever they want , which will fit their needs for “this” particular political climate where doing such things for thousands of years in the past and they will continue doing that following the same dirty pattern for thousands years to come.

I’m honestly hoping that that we will not make “something different” out of this particular thread and leave it as it was intended to be:
The remembrance about human tragedies; some thinking about the history, circumstances, mistakes, learning from that and trying our own “little bits” (each of us) so we and people around us can think straight, analyzing things according to what suppose to be in our souls.

(at the same time I will write a bit more in P.S)

My regards.

P.S. The hunger (the famine of 1932-1933) artificially created (there is no doubts about it) in the Ukraine that killed at least 14 million people …
Now you can hear the screams and anger from both sides, but the problem is how you (they) interpreting that horror at this very moment.
Sure, there are those who are “drilling holes in peoples’ heads” deliberately propagating / spreading the idea of the genocide where Russians as a nation were killing Ukrainians as a nation…
not The Regime, but that insanity! That is as disgusting as it gets!
… but hey! wait! … any time “They” will need to “release a steam” in a bit of a different direction - “They” always have a working alternative … whom to blame for everything – that will work perfectly as well, and as usual.

“In front of face of History as well as in front of face of God it is necessary to tell the truth” (c) General Lev Rohlin
That’s why I picked up words carefully.
It was irrefutable well-proven and demonstrated that “Katyn case” is a fake. Official position of contemporary russian authorities does not mean historical facts and justice.

“Bloody and terrible crimes” of Stalin it is a fruit of:

  • labour of the Twentieth Party Congress of CPSU. Twentieth Party Congress produced a garbage (nonsense, not confirmed by facts);
  • liberasts of dying USSR (“wave” started ~ in 1987). [here and afterwards, liberast is a liberal with “special” world-view, i do not mean all liberals]

“Human’ rumour will bring a lot of garbage on my grave after i die but Wind of History will disperse it completely” (c) J.V. Stalin.

There are crimes commited by Joseph Vissarionovich. But they:

  • have nothing to do with “millions of innocent executed” (neither by raw numbers, nor by content) and other howls of liberasts ;
  • are cruel necessity and were commited to save Empire or to lessen a damage to the Empire.

Facts pls, not jokes invented by liberasts. So, what is real number?

Have you read the link i provided previously?

That does not prove that current official “Katyn case” is not a fake.

Perfectly describes fabrication of current official “Katyn case”.

А ты что, наивно предполагал, что после всех твоих пассажей про Империю зла, замучившей “миллионы невинных”, никто не одёрнет?
And you that, did suppose naively, that after all your arcades about Empire of evil, torturing “millions of innocent”, nobody will say a word?

1st thinking that I’m naive is pretty much naive.
Then you could write the part in Russian in PM (or not at all) rather than here.
I do understand that and the translation. The latter is more appropriate for English section
And yes, I personally will not say a word and you can support “their” deeds of the past; this days and probably (& quite possibly) in the future.
But my family as basically any and every family “there” had victims amongst those “millions of innocent”.


Since I started the thread and as I can see it is going different direction despite I asked about it I’ll try to lock it … never did it before though so I’m not sure how that will go…