As I read the TOS, you get to evaluate the failed samples each time to make sure you were scored fairly. And, of course, to fix your problems. But you keep your score unless you can show they made and error in evaluation. 6 months later when there is the next evaluation, there is a new database you haven’t seen before, and you get a score based on the latest threats. Seems fair and workable. What does the rest of his reponse say that led you to your conclusions? Seems like Comodo seems to understand better if they wish to participate.
More than happy for you to confirm what you say above and see how many malware they shared.
You can post/discuss this here all day long, easiest is to get the word from them directly rather than speculating what TOS mean.
Please let us know what they say. More than happy to participate if its going to benefit our users.
Thank you for contacting them Sded, look forward to the response.
Melih
OK, read your response from AV Comparatives. Your open letter asked them to share their virus database with you; they declined and suggested other alternatives. Don’t get the feeling that they are trying to avoid their TOS, just that their answer is what I would expect based on what I mentioned in original post-they are not interested in providing your initial database. Why don’t you ask them the pertinent question about signing up for their testing program and receiving the samples for your errors so you can upgrade your capabilities? Looks like most of the major AV vendors are signed up. If any further contacting is done it needs to be by Comodo, not a disinterested third party speculating.
I agree
We asked about sharing: they said they don’t share.
If they did share, then they would simply say: here is the condition under which we share! They didn’t…
go ahead and write down exactly what question we should ask, so that we can ask the very exact question. I have no problem sending the email, however in order to avoid any confusion and interpretation i am more than happy to go with your text.
so go ahead and give me your text and we will email it to them. It will be interesting to see, if they share their malware.
But here is what puzzles me:
http://av-comparatives.org/seiten/ergebnisse/report17.pdf Here Feb 2008 VBA32 misses over 200,000 samples
and
http://av-comparatives.org/seiten/ergebnisse/report19.pdf here May 2008 VBA32 misses over 280,000 of the samples they have.
I doubt very much if they shared the 200,000 that VBA32 was missing and within 3 months there were 280,000 new malware!
If they shared their malware, then they couldn’t test! They test every 3 months, the brand new malware found every 3 months won’t make a material change to the overall %age and all AV vendors will be at similar detection ratio!
Anyway, give me the text, ask a very detailed/specific question and you can even bring the ToS into it and share it with us here and I will send it to them and see what response we get!
thanks for you help Sded!
Melih
Sorry; not interested in being a Proxy for Comodo. If you don’t know how to ask them whether their terms of service apply, and whether there are other caveats, perhaps someone else in the company can help phrase it. VBA32 may have too low a percentage to qualify; but ??? Comodo needs to understand it, so they can explain it more fully to the users why the are or aren’t participating. You are the potential buyer, not us users.
My reason for asking you to write it is to avoid you to question what we ask next time as you seem to be more interested in questioning our questions we ask. Like a back seat passenger is more than happy to critisize but never willing to help!
We know what to ask, as we have done in the past, this is not the first time we communicated with them. We have asked and got our answer! I am quite convinced that they do NOT share their malware samples. It is you who thinks they do hence gave you the opportunity to write the letter in a way that would satisfy you! Instead you declined, leaving yourself one more opportunity to criticize when you get the next answer, saying they don’t share! 
BTW: you are within your right to ask questions to them, there is nothing stopping you. People ask Comodo questions all the time.
Melih
Have you specifically asked them if they provide samples of the failed viruses to their customers (assuming no NDA) in accordance with their TOS? Have they specifically said they do not provide such samples, that the TOS are incorrect? I do not think anything, just read their TOS (contract) which has a lot of AV vendors signed up. This is as opposed to your open letter, which asked them to share all of their malware samples database, and which I think we all understand they declined. There is nothing vague about the question except what you have made it. And this thread which draws that so far unsubstantiated conclusion from a communication which appears to say nothing like that. I have no dog in this race, but think these unsupported attacks on other companies by Comodo serve none of us. If they don’t follow their TOS, say so and show us the correspondence!
Why rely on my communication?
You have a keyboard, you have internet connection, you know how to contact him, go ahead and contact him!
You could have written them an email asking them by now! Why the reluctance? Surely you don’t need to have a contract with a company to ask a simple question to them, do you?
Melih
Hi,
this thread is in my eyes just a method to put pressure on an organization to give samples to Comodo. My reply to the email Comodo sent me was clear enough, this thread does not change the decision in any way, it just confirms that it was correct. We are testers and not an av vendor.
If you look for companies which share samples with you, please ask AV vendors or collecting organizations which share samples (I gave you some helpful hints who to ask).
Comodo’s detection rates are still very low. Assume that tomorrow a guy write a program which has nearly inexistent detection rates and then asks testing organizations to send him malware so he can protect his customers. For quality reasons an AV vendor should have enough samples by its own, before it starts up. Also it shoud have many sources for continously improving the database, but not by getting malware from testers.
Testing organizations are not here to send out samples to anyone, they test products to know how many of them are recognized. Our public TOS are very clear, so you should know the rules. AV-Comparatives does not share samples, we send missed samples to trusted vendors which behave ethically and which high-quality product reaches minimum detection rates according to our TOS, contracts and CoC.
Regards,
Andreas
Chairman of AV-Comparatives e.V.
P.S.: report19 is not from May, its from August. The rules are applied also to VBA32.
P.P.S.: I just noticied that you were asking peoples in this thread to flood us with questions regarding Comodo. As said, we do not let put pressure on us, we will not violate our own TOS.
We wish you luck with getting samples in a seriously way, if you reach our minimum test requirements, we can talk about testing.
Thanks for posting Andreas. Pretty much clears it up for me.
Al
Welcome to the Forums IBK.
Can you please tell me this - What have you got to loose? and what is there to gain?
I can’t see anything you can loose and I can see alot of users benifiting from the gains.
I’m quite shocked, What are you intentions? Are you only interested from the money you get from paying AV vendors? Cause right now I can’t see the care for any of the users.
This comment is personal and has nothing to do with comodo.
But he just said, that if they would share there database with anyone it could end up in bad hands. Lets say I’ve just created an AV company. Emperor Antivirus Pro ;D and ask them to share their database with me. It would be irresponsible and stupid from their side. If COMODO passes the required minimum - they will get the missing samples.
So, either COMODO is afraid to perform poorly again or they don’t have the contacts to get samples from (or if they do, they don’t get enough)
So COMODO decided to put the pressure on, by manipulating with their FREE status. But I’m sure COMODO has no bad intensions and the end users WOULD benefit from this
we have done some additions:
Hi,
this thread is in my eyes just a method to put pressure on an organization to give samples to Comodo. My reply to the email Comodo sent me was clear enough, this thread does not change the decision in any way, it just confirms that it was correct. We are testers and not an av vendor.
If you look for companies which share samples with you, please ask AV vendors or collecting organizations which share samples (I gave you some helpful hints who to ask).
Comodo’s detection rates are still very low. Assume that tomorrow a guy write a program which has nearly inexistent detection rates and then asks testing organizations to send him malware so he can protect his customers. For quality reasons an AV vendor should have enough samples by its own, before it starts up. Also it shoud have many sources for continously improving the database, but not by getting malware from testers.
Testing organizations are not here to send out samples to anyone, they test products to know how many of them are recognized. Our public TOS are very clear, so you should know the rules. AV-Comparatives does not share samples, we send missed samples to trusted vendors which behave ethically and which high-quality product reaches minimum detection rates according to our TOS, contracts and CoC.
Regards,
Andreas
Chairman of AV-Comparatives e.V.
P.S.: report19 is not from May, its from August. The rules are applied also to VBA32.
P.P.S.: I just noticied that you were asking peoples in this thread to flood us with questions regarding Comodo. As said, we do not let put pressure on us, we will not violate our own TOS.
We wish you luck with getting samples in a seriously way, if you reach our minimum test requirements, we can talk about testing.
Hello. I do see your points and you have very good reasons for them.
My point is that comodo isn’t some unknown new company that popped up in the last shower of rain.
I’m sure that Melih intends to do good with these samples and help his users.
At the end of the day the decision is yours and all I can say is,
Please.
Kyle
COMODO is know for it’s firewall and SSL certificates, but not for it’s antivirus. COMODO doesn’t even believe in antivirus technology. They do have some good points though, but we still need an AV today. And COMODO needs to prove itself. Their not the only one providing free AV also
Hi Andreas
Even though I do not agree with some of the things you do, I do appreciate you taking the time to come to our forums. In the interest of openness, following your lead in making the answers public, here is the email I sent back to you (to Peter)
[b]Hi Peter
Thanks for taking this up. 2 questions if I may:
1)Can you pls let me know what percentage is defined as “high detection”?
2)Also, after this high detection is reached, can you share all your samples that the particular AV vendor does not detect? If not do you have a sense of rough percentages of malware you can provide back?
Thank you for your responses
PS: Some clarification: I never asked people to flood you via emails. If you read my posts it was at one specific individual called Sded and it was because he kept asking me about your ToS and hence I referred him to direct his questions to you and not me.
PS: Am I trying to put pressure on you guys to improve the way AVs being tested? Most definitely! I am more than happy to work with anyone who has end users interest at heart and who is prepared to improve their processes to benefit the human kind!
PS: I find it unethical for Andreas to make comments about Comodos detection rates without us requesting a test and yet he publicly makes a statement. I would appreciate if that statement could be withdrawn.
I would kindly ask you to read about what I have done and what I am trying to do to get a sense of where I am coming from MELIH ABDULHAYOGLU | Internet Security and Trust . Setting worldwide standards for the good of end users is something very important me.
Kind regards
Melih Abdulhayoglu
President & CEO
COMODO
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Stelzhammer - AV-Comparatives
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:07 AM
To: melih
Cc: ‘Andreas Clementi’
Subject: AW: RE: [AV company]: Malware Exchange
Hi Melih,
thanks for your answer, as Andreas wrote in the forum (look below), we can talk about testing your product in the future, if you reach our minimum test requirements.
We don´t want to test a product, which currently is not detecting enough malware.
We see the way you are going, a free suite will be good for customers, but it must have a very high quality level in detection, too. We wish, you will reach the goal.
Schöne Grüsse / Greetings
Peter Stelzhammer
Vice Chairman
AV-Comparatives e.V.
Hi,
this thread is in my eyes just a method to put pressure on an organization to give samples to Comodo. My reply to the email Comodo sent me was clear enough, this thread does not change the decision in any way, it just confirms that it was correct. We are testers and not an av vendor.
If you look for companies which share samples with you, please ask AV vendors or collecting organizations which share samples (I gave you some helpful hints who to ask).
Comodo’s detection rates are still very low. Assume that tomorrow a guy write a program which has nearly inexistent detection rates and then asks testing organizations to send him malware so he can protect his customers.
For quality reasons an AV vendor should have enough samples by its own, before it starts up. Also it shoud have many sources for continously improving the database, but not by getting malware from testers.
Testing organizations are not here to send out samples to anyone, they test products to know how many of them are recognized. Our public TOS are very clear, so you should know the rules. AV-Comparatives does not share samples, we send missed samples to trusted vendors which behave ethically and which high-quality product reaches minimum detection rates according to our TOS, contracts and CoC.
Regards,
Andreas
Chairman of AV-Comparatives e.V.
P.S.: report19 is not from May, its from August. The rules are applied also to VBA32.
P.P.S.: I just noticied that you were asking peoples in this thread to flood us with questions regarding Comodo. As said, we do not let put pressure on us, we will not violate our own TOS.
We wish you luck with getting samples in a seriously way, if you reach our minimum test requirements, we can talk about testing.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Andreas Clementi
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. September 2008 11:50
An:
Betreff: FW: RE: [AV company]: Malware Exchange
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: “Melih Abdulhayoglu”
Gesendet: 26.09.08 05:04:06
An: “‘Andreas Clementi’” , “‘Umesh’”Betreff: RE: [AV company]: Malware Exchange
Andreas
Thanks for the answer.
Is there any scenario where you guys give the samples to AV companies?
(maybe when they register with you or any other scenario, including
when
you
test their AV and give them samples of what they don’t detect etc?)Kind regards
Melih Abdulhayoglu
President & CEO
COMODO-----Original Message-----
From: Andreas Clementi
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:55 PM
To: Umesh
Subject: Re: [AV company]: Malware ExchangeHi Umesh,
I am sorry, but as testers we do not send out samples, AV vendors do.
I suggest you to try asking e.g. small or asian antivirus companies
(like Kingsoft, VBA32, Rising, Ikarus, etc.) as they are more likely
to accept to share samples with you. Eventually try asking
PCSecurityLabs, as I think they would maybe send you samples as well.regards,
andreasUmesh schrieb:
This mail was sent thru the form on www.av-comparatives.org
IP address of sender:
Hi Andreas Clementi,
I am program manager in COMODO (www.comodo.com).
We have a product Comodo Antivirus (http://antivirus.comodo.com/),
which
is a free product for all home users as well as companies.
We are coming up with Comodo Internet Security (CIS), which is
security
suite comprising Comodo Firewall, Defense+ and Antivirus and this is
also going to be free for all home users and companies alike.
As of now CIS is in BETA and we plan to release it in 1st half of
October,
We are very hopeful to receive samples from you as COMODO believes
in
securing every home user PC from threats. Our highly acclaimed Comodo
Firewall is an example of the same and we want to do the same for out
Antivirus product. We do have a good scan engine in place now but need
to improve upon detection and therefore need your help in providing us
samples
you can.
We do not want to compete in the market to have a share but truly
wants
to
secure every home user PC in the world by providing user best Firewall
and Antivirus combination free.I hope you would help in achieving our goal.
Looking forward to hear a positive response from your side.Thanks
-umesh
Wenn Sie nicht der vorgesehene Adressat dieser e-mail oder dessen
Vertreter sein sollten, so beachten Sie bitte, daß jede Form der Kenntnisnahme, Veröffentlichung, Vervielfältigung oder Weitergabe des Inhaltes dieser e-mail unzulässig ist. Wir ersuchen Sie in diesem Fall, sich mit dem Absender der e-mail in Verbindung zu setzen. Die Versendung von e-mails an uns hat keine fristwahrende Wirkung. Wir möchten Sie außerdem darauf hinweisen, daß die Kommunikation per e-mail über das Internet unsicher ist, da für unberechtigte Dritte grundsätzlich die Möglichkeit der Kenntnisnahme und Manipulation besteht. Wir übernehmen weder für den Inhalt dieser Nachricht noch für Änderungen, die nach dem Versand der Originalnachricht vorgenommen wurden, irgendeine Verantwortung. Obwohl wir alle angemessenen Vorkehrungen getroffen haben, um sicherzustellen, daß Anlagen zu dieser e-mail Virus-geprüft sind, empfehlen wir Ihnen dennoch, anhängende Dateien vor dem Öffnen durch ein geeignetes Viren-Programm zu prüfen, da wir keinerlei Haftung für Schäden übernehmen, die infolge etwaiger Software-Viren entstehen könnten. Der Austausch von Nachrichten mit o.a. Absender via e-mail dient ausschliesslich Informationszwecken.
Rechtsgeschaeftliche Erklaerungen duerfen ueber dieses Medium nicht ausgetauscht werden.
***************************[/b]
Then I sent another question:
[b]******************************
Peter
One more question if I could bother you pls
1)how many percent of your malware library has malware that has not been seen in the wild for last 3 years?
Kind regards
Melih Abdulhayoglu
President & CEO
COMODO
*************************[/b]
I am yet to receive responses to it, and more than happy if we received the responses here in the forum as you have been kind enough to do.
thanks
Melih
Hmmmmm…Looking forward to a reply.
I just hope that there is ongoing communication without hard feelings from either side.
I like AV-Comparatives as a (in my opinion) neutral source of information and I like Comodo for the great attitude they have towards creating a trusted internet. We need both.
as we are going tomorrow to the VB Conference Virus Bulletin :: VB2023 in Ottawa it could take some time …