Lost all my snapshots, REALLY weird problem, please read!!

Help - CTM
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First off, I just want to say that CTM is really annoying me right now, it has actually made my life miserable and in hell since 2 weeks ago, where i tried to update to a newer version and it totally ■■■■■■■ up my system and messed up the bootmgr etc, so i had to reformat. And NOW, i’m having another problem just as bad, but slightly better.

Before i go on, I just want to point out that besides using CTM, I also create a system restore checkpoint every now and then to keep my system regularly backed up in case i need to restore to an earlier backup.

You might ask, why will i use system restore if i’m using CTM already? The answer is simple. CTM seems to only let you create a maximum of 5 snapshots, for some reason, it uses up space WAAAY too fast, but at the same time, it doesn’t. I have a 1TB hardrive, but CTM shows that i only have about 200MB of freespace left to use, which doesn’t make sense since i have tons of freespace left. I’m not the only one having this problem either, and i installed the latest CTM as well.

So anyway, since i can’t keep creating snapshots using CTM, that’s why i also use system restore as well.

Now here’s the problem, i don’t know if it’s an incompatibility or not but i created a system restore checkpoint today, i shut off my PC and take a rest. I come back later and turn on my PC, and somehow the bootmgr is ■■■■■■■ up, it keeps taking me to the system repair window, and even then i couldn’t use any of my system restore checkpoints as it showed an error that i won’t get into here as it’s irrelevant. Anyway i tried using last known good configuration, nothing works, it won’t boot into Windows at all, basically it’s a ■■■■■■■ up MBR record, everything i do just won’t fix it, i ran sfc /scannow and chkdsk and those don’t work.

So, i then decide to use CTM which i was reluctant to since the snapshots were older than the ones i created using system restore. Anyway when i got into the console, it only showed the very first snapshot i took after installing it, it was the snapshot with the oldest date, and all the newer snapshots weren’t there at all.

Also, i don’t see the CTM loading prompt screen anymore, i.e the screen that shows just before it shows your windows boot screen with the logo and the loading bar. That’s the screen that shows the word “Home” with the blue loading bar, and if you press it, it takes you to the sub-console where you can restore, compact, uninstall etc.

So ya, I dunno what the problem is but i’m SURE it’s CTM’s bugs or w/e. I’ve had all sorts of problems ever since i installed CTM, i’ve never had all this problem before and other windows problems before i had this installed, but now i keep getting problems ESPECIALLY with ■■■■■■■ up systems and boot records etc, i either have to restore to a very very early backup, or reformat my PC again.

I’ve suggested and asked this before but sadly, the support of this forum is lacking. Comodo makes great products but now i’m really starting to wonder, do they actually listen and help its users? There’re tons of other questions unanswered aside from my previous ones, and i hope SOMEONE can really read this one.

So, my suggestion is, create an option to let users save their snapshots on another hardrive or USB, or maybe create a partition dedicated to storing backed up snapshots only, or maybe sync their snapshots online or something using an account.

OR, at least tell us where the snapshot locations are stored at, i asked this but never got an answer. It would be easier and better if we can gain more control of the snapshots of our system in case something like this problem happens, and it obviously happened to me where i got fully ■■■■■■■ over.

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Maximum of 5 snapshots? I have many more than that. Something must be wrong.
I don’t use System Restore with CTM. They say is is compatable with SR but Rollback RX and EAZ-FIX both deactivate it when they are installed.

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There are also issues between CTM and defragmenters.

In fact there are issues in a lot of machines, as we can see in these forums. I would either install CTM on a clean machine (like after a Windows reinstall), and then read carefully the product’s FAQ/User Manuals; or I would not install it at all.

Myself, I think too many users load their PCs with software they don’t really need and soon things start to go wrong, with compatibility problems, lost data, malfunctions, BSODs… and so on.

I would never install CTM (or any other similar program), registry cleaners (snake oil), tune-up software, etc.
Keep it simple and you’ll be better off.

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Chaoscreater, you may want to read an explanation i gave to somebody else who was having disappearing disk space problems with their Rollback RX program.Since CTM is based on the same technology it is relevant to your situation. Pay particular attention to the “PS” at the bottom of the explanation.Here is the link

http://horizondatasys-forum.com/rollback-rx/491-enormous-snapshot.html#post1179

The above link may or may not explain what is happening in your situation regarding the nearly filled up harddrive and there may in fact be a bug in CTM in your situation but its important that you first understand how CTM (and Rollback) technology works so that you can determine more correctly if there is an issue with CTM using up disk space inexplicably.

CTM uses a very powerful techology that many people cant get there heads around. CTM uses a sector based technology, not a file based one. Please read the following explanation taken from the Horizon website

PUTTING ROLLBACK RX TO WORK FOR YOU.

Horizon DataSys has developed RollBack Rx, a solution that can recover a crashed PC within seconds while addressing all the shortcomings of the previously mentioned solutions. RollBack Rx is a revolutionary product, based on groundbreaking technology. Basically, it creates a “virtual shield” around the protected data while still allowing the data to be accessed and manipulated. It does not use back-up technology; therefore it doesn’t require additional hard drive or server storage space. RollBack Rx enables a system to be fully recovered within seconds, regardless of wether the crash was due to a hacker, virus attack or user error. It can even rescue a PC whose drive has been formatted AND Fdisked!

RollBack Rx: A Closer Look
RollBack Rx protects everything on your PC with a subsystem and a kernel system. The subsystem and kernel system creates a sector map and virtual shield rendering the operating system unaware of data movement at the sector level. Given that all data located on sectors has a corresponding entry on the sector map, RollBack Rx designates each sector that has sector map entry as “Used”. Conversely all sectors that do not have data with a corresponding sector map entry are designated as “Free”. Upon installation, the hard drive is classified by the kernel system protecting the “Used” sectors under the virtual shield. This classification is completely independent of the operating system.

Any changes after the installation of RollBack Rx are classified as “Snapshot Used” sectors. The “Snapshot Used” sector classification renders all changed data uniquely identifiable. “Snapshot Used” sectors are an extension of the “Used” sectors with linked pointers. The operating system is not aware that there is a two-stage link pointer between the data (between the used and snapshot used sectors).

The statement “It does not use back-up technology; therefore it doesn’t require additional hard drive or server storage space.” is alittle misleading i admit. But what it essentially means is that each snaphot only uses as much space as new files that were created during that snapshot. CTM will hang on to these files until any and all snapshots that these files exist in are deleted.

Lastly, because CTM is sector based then i believe that having the snapshots on another drive will be pointless because its not the sector maps themselves that use the harddisk space. It’s the data that they point to. Many people have asked for this feature and if they understood how CTM worked they would see the futility of this. Maybe things will change now? ;D

EDIT: Regarding your issue with corrupted boot sector. This i have no explanation for. It looks like it could be a CTM bug in this case or it could be related to your hard disk space issue. Sorry i cant help in this regard. :-[

EDIT2: I almost forgot. Turn off your System Restore. This is surely filling up a lot of your hard disk. System Restore can use a lot of hard disk space under normal circumstances but use it while CTM is working as your asking for trouble. If System Restore backup data between each snapshot (as it surely is doing) then remember the lessons learned above. CTM will perceive this as changed data and redirect the new writes so as to protect each individual System Restore in each previous snapshot!

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wow finally, i get some replies in my topic :slight_smile:

first off, thanks for your replies guys. I haven’t installed a lot of stuff on my PC so it couldn’t be those having incompatibility problems with CTM. I don’t use a lot of registry cleaners or defragmenters, in fact i don’t even use them AT ALL. The only registry cleaner i use is CCleaner which doesn’t really affect the registry that much, and i’ve used it all the time and never had a problem with CTM.

I don’t get blue screens or whatever, my system runs fine. But the problems i have are usually with Windows itself, such as the Task Scheduler not working as it should with CTM. I’ve troubleshooted this problem at Microsoft’s support forum and in conclusion we found out that it was most likely due to incompatibility with CTM.

Anyway those weren’t really a big deal to me, so that’s leave that aside.

As for system restore, i only manually create a checkpoint every 3 days, so it doesn’t take up space at all, and like i said, i have a 1TB hardrive but for some reason the freespace shown in CTM just decreases more and more each day, even though i did not take any snapshots. (BTW I read the topic you linked to me about the Rollback)

I still want to know if it’s possible to backup the snapshots?? Can you tell me where the snapshots are stored at?? Maybe we can just back those up and delete them, and then create new ones, this will be a lot easier for people like me that likes to make regular backups and don’t want to have the space limitation problem in CTM.

And is there a way to make the sub-console prompt screen show up?? That’s the screen before the windows boot screen, where it shows the “Home” and the blue loading bar, if you press home it will bring you to the sub-console. I don’t see that screen anymore but if i time it just right and press the home key before the windows boot screen shows up, i can still get to the sub-console.

Oh and i forgot to mention one other problem, when i was using an older version of CTM 2 weeks ago, i tried to update it but it took forever, so i decided to download the client installer from the website and install it. But i forgot to uninstall it from the sub-console first, but then again most programs can be updated using a newer installer and install new files over it without having to uninstall the older version first.

Anyway i did that and CTM ■■■■■■■ up my whole system, it basically gets stuck at the windows boot screen in a loop. So, i had to format it, but before i did i wanted to try and recovery some of the files on my system, so i hook up my hardrive to another PC and tried to access the files, but they were all corrupted.

So i’m guessing this is because CTM protects the system files etc like you said?

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or defragmenters, in fact i don't even use them AT ALL.
Depending on wich version of Windows, is the OS automatic defragmenter off?
The only registry cleaner i use is CCleaner which doesn't really affect the registry that much
In fact, it does.

My point was that the best back up is a portable hard drive. But if you like an option like CTM carfal seems to know what he’s talking about. Good luck.

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The only registry cleaner i use is CCleaner which doesn't really affect the registry that much, and i've used it all the time and never had a problem with CTM.

Chaoscreator, I use CCleaner alot as well. However there is a setting in the left hand column in the advanced section labeled “Wipe free Space”. If you use CCleaner regularly (at least once a day) with this option enabled then this is the culprit to your free space disappearing. Remember CTM protects everything at the sector level. CCLeaner will try to wipe a sector that it thinks is free because it cant see the full sector map that CTM can see. CTM will redirect the wipe to an actual free location, protecting the original sector that probably belongs to many other snapshots. Now this new sector wipe is perceived as a change in data by CTM and when you take your next snapshot, CTM will protect these empty sectors and redirect any write attempts to another actual free location and so on and so on. You can see how this will quickly fill your harddisk space.

Jose_Lisbon also has a valid suggestion in make sure that the Windows defragmenter in not set to automatically defrag at set intervals. Otherwise same principle applies as i stated above as far as chewing up disk space.

I still want to know if it's possible to backup the snapshots?? Can you tell me where the snapshots are stored at?? Maybe we can just back those up and delete them, and then create new ones, this will be a lot easier for people like me that likes to make regular backups and don't want to have the space limitation problem in CTM.

Is seems i have failed in explaining the whole sector level thingy and the futility or inpracticality of backing up individual snapshots. For this i apoligise. I dont have a real technical knowlege to explain it any clearer. :-[ The only reliable and practical way to backup your drive once CTM is installed is to image the entire drive. That means all snapshots as they appear now along with all the data that they point to will be together in one image. This can only be achieved by using the “raw data” or “Sector level” method when doing an image of your drive. I believe Acronis True Image can do this reliably. If you use another image program make sure you select “raw data” or “Sector level” method.

If you really want to pursue the method of backing up individual snapshots then this can be achieved but not with the desired results upon restoration. You can take a normal image (NOT “raw data” or “Sector level” method)of any snapshot your currently in. The size of each image will be the size of your full system plus whatever unique data exists within the CURRENT snapshot minus the space that the other snapshots occupy because only CTM can see those. So if your system is 25gb then each image using this method will be 25gb plus whatever unique data exists within the CURRENT snapshot. If you have 10 snapshots then space needed will be 25x10. Im sure you understand. Here lies the problem. These images do not contain the full snapshot tree that CTM uses. Upon restoring your harddrive all snapshots will be lost firstly because restoring an image overwrites all data on the current drive and secondly because the image you took only contains the one snapshot (therefore the only system now). Lastly you’ll find that CTM will be broken and will need to be uninstalled and reinstalled to fix it. So you can see that you wont be able to individually restore a snapshot without wiping the entire drive.
So if your happy with these (serious) limitations then be my guest. :slight_smile:

Using the “raw data” or “Sector level” method avoids all of these limitations and keeps your system completely intact. Also you’ll need less space as the image will contain the full system plus all snapshots. Remember that the snapshots only contain changed data that the sector maps point to making this imaging method a much more efficient way of backing up. When you restore, everything is as it should be. ;D ;D

And is there a way to make the sub-console prompt screen show up?? That's the screen before the windows boot screen, where it shows the "Home" and the blue loading bar, if you press home it will bring you to the sub-console. I don't see that screen anymore but if i time it just right and press the home key before the windows boot screen shows up, i can still get to the sub-console.

You may have disable the subsonsole screen from within CTM. Look in the settings for this option and see if its enabled.

EDIT: Chaoscreator, lose the Windows System Restore. No really. With CTM installed it DOES occupy alot of space (even if you only take manual Restore Points). Also, System Restore does not override CTM. What i mean is it restores within the confines of CTM snapshots which is pretty pointless IMO and will be perceived as change in data by CTM only adding to your drive space woes. However, I am not going to beat you over the head with it. ;D I’ve suggested it twice now. If you really like it dont let me stand in the way :stuck_out_tongue:

EDIT2: It seems obvious to me but i think i’d better mention it. When doing the “raw data” or “Sector level” method image, it needs to be done from a boot disk. This is so that CTM can be circumvented and all the sectors can then be seen by the imaging program. 88)

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I’m using Windows 7 Ultimate x86.

@carfal, thanks for your detailed replies, i do understand most of it. Yes i do use Acronis True Image to backup my entire system, but it takes longer to restore and takes longer to backup an entire drive compare to taking a snapshot, but now that you explained it, i know it won’t work even if i do backup the snapshots, so i guess i’ll just have to backup my entire drive regularly…

i do backup my files on an external hardrive as well, it’s just that i like tne way CTM works and how it backups and restores pretty quickly.

Yup i disabled system restore already, sorry forgot to mention that.

And i checked the settings but it doesn’t have any option with any mentioning of the word “sub-console” except for the “disable mouse in the subconsole” option…the only option i see that might be related is “don’t show program logo on startup”, is that it?? I thought that’s the splash screen of when you start CTM when you’re in Windows. Anyway i’ll try untick this and see if it’s the right option.

EDIT2: It seems obvious to me but i think i'd better mention it. When doing the "raw data" or "Sector level" method image, it needs to be done from a boot disk. This is so that CTM can be circumvented and all the sectors can then be seen by the imaging program.

What do you mean it needs to be done from a boot disk?? Are you saying that if i backup my entire hardrive using raw data or sector level method, i have to create them on discs?? Because i find that i have ot use at least 4 DVDs to backup the image that Acronis creates, so instead i backed up to my external hardrive…

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What do you mean it needs to be done from a boot disk?? Are you saying that if i backup my entire hardrive using raw data or sector level method, i have to create them on discs?? Because i find that i have ot use at least 4 DVDs to backup the image that Acronis creates, so instead i backed up to my external hardrive.....

No. What i mean is that you’ll have to “create an emergency boot disk” using Acronis that will then allow you to insert the CD into the drive and you can boot from it. Acronis will load up from the CD and because you’ve booted from a CD bypassing the HD then CTM will not have loaded and therefore you’re HD is fully visible to Acronis. You can now take a complete “raw data” or “Sector level” image of your HD. The image can be saved on an external HD, USB stick or yes…even CD’s or DVD’s if you so wish. Do not save the image on the HD’s that are protected by CTM.Be aware that your HD is extremely vulnerable at this time because it is not protected from CTM. Make sure that all you do is take an image and nothing else. If you try to copy files or modify anything on your HD at this time, you will very likey corrupt data on your HD and at worst it wont boot (even the pre boot CTM subconsole may not show to save you).
However it IS safe to take an image of your HD at this time…I’m just saying dont do anything that will write to the HD’s protected by CTM. :wink:

And i checked the settings but it doesn't have any option with any mentioning of the word "sub-console" except for the "disable mouse in the subconsole" option......the only option i see that might be related is "don't show program logo on startup", is that it?? I thought that's the splash screen of when you start CTM when you're in Windows. Anyway i'll try untick this and see if it's the right option.

Yes the option “don’t show program logo on startup” was the one i was thinking of. If this is already UNTICKED and doesnt do the trick then your going to need tech support from Comodo.

EDIT: Sorry, I know that you have now disabled System Restore but i dont think you answered Jose_Lisbon’s question as to whether you disabled the auto Defragging that is definitely scheduled to automatically run by default in W7 (all versions)??

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I’ve used Acronis tons of times so i think i understand what you’re saying, if i understood you correct, you’re telling me not to include CTM in the full image backup right?? But how will this make a difference? Because CTM is still installed, so if i take the image using the boot disc, isn’t that the same as booting into Windows and load up Acronis and take the image that way??

Ya i never save the image to the same hdd, it causes problems to Acronis itself so i always save it to a DVD or external hardrive anyway.

i’m not sure if i have auto-defragging schedule enabled, but i never see that schedule running anyway.

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No - what he is telling you is to

  1. Create a bootable Acronis CD and boot your system from it.
  2. Image your disk in RAW mode (which includes ALL sectors which would then capture the sectors used by the snapshot data)
But how will this make a difference? Because CTM is still installed, so if i take the image using the boot disc, isn't that the same as booting into Windows and load up Acronis and take the image that way??

No - it’s totally different. Whe you boot off the Acronis boot CD, your system is running under the control of the operating system loaded off the CD. Windows has not booted and therefore CTM has not initialised. If it has not initialsed, its sector map will not change and if we do a RAW mode image we will be including all of the areas used for storing the snapshot data.

As I said in my previous post, I’ve been able to get Paragons Hard Drive Manager to create a working backup image of my CTM protected disk, but ONLY by booting off the Paragon boot CD and doing a complete disk clone (which is their equivalent of Acronis’ RAW mode).

Cheers,
Ewen :slight_smile:

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@panic

Thanks for clearing that up for chaoscreator :slight_smile:

@chaoscreator

i'm not sure if i have auto-defragging schedule enabled, but i never see that schedule running anyway.

Ok, go to Start>All programs>Accessories>System Tools>Disk Defragmenter

http://users.adam.com.au/carfal/Disk%20Defragmenter.jpg

The above image is what YOUR defragmenter should look like. If not, adjust accordingly. ;D

PS. The image is the defragmenter for W7. I cant remember what OS you were using. However these instructions should still tell you where to look for the defrag scheduling on your OS.