Wow, I didn’t think this topic would have more than 1 page. I see some very interesting reasoning here.
I don’t quiet agree with you on that about Jesus. I mean if I followed that same path of logic then I too would be God if I made such a claim seeing as though I am not crazy or evil. Besides I am not even so sure if Jesus even existed. There are so many stories that predates him that are almost identical to his lifestory with the difference being the time, culture and names. Besides,if Jesus is such an important figure why is it that we have yet to have historical references of him from other scholars from that time period? Why is it only in the Bible we see these references?
And then I could go on about the design of this universe. It seems impossible for it to have come about by chance. I live in a natural area, where I can go out and spend time looking at nature. It is much more intricate than any computer or program...and those are made by designers, not chance.
And the human mind too.
I would say there is certainly much evidence for a Divine Being. It is just people don’t want to believe.
I like your argument about the design of the universe and totally agree with you on that point. I mean things as they are are just too precise to have just come about by chance.
I agree with some who may say if we seeking a logical explanation to the origins of the universe we have to look at both the scientific and faith beliefs.
Now as someone had outlined earlier if existence as we know it require space and time then within those bounds we can start finding some answers but if we are to go beyond that like perhaps existence outside time or space or maybe both (I dunno as I am not a physicist) then perhaps we need to use another form of logic to reason that out because what we have now only limits us to space and time.
But it’s quiet interesting that within space and time that religious beliefs can actually co-exist with scientific beliefs in that both give their own answer to the same question. The difference is that one requires evidence while one simply requires that one simply accepts it. Sometimes people tend to downplay beliefs and say well there’s no tangible evidence for such beliefs and thus you are an idiot for believing such things but I look on things like intuition where things happen and you just know. I mean there is no reasoning behind it except that you just know. I mean we’ve all had those gut-feelings before and sometimes we follow it and are glad we did and other times we decide to not follow it and then kick ourselves. In such a case where individuals simply know that their faith is right then maybe they are. Maybe it is as they say it is but we are just too proud to admit it since we cannot find actual evidence for it.
Something struck me as I was writing in the Time Travel thread. All this time we are preoccupied with time moving in a linear fashion. What if time was cyclical?
We are always here wondering what exactly happened before the universe existed? What if the answer to that was simply a different time cycle? That would give us some idea into how God came about wouldn’t it? I mean we are always looking at time in a fashion that it begins but never ends but what if time actually begins then ends? With each new cycle comes different events. So supposed the first ever cycle simply happened! No explanation for it but it just happened but right before that cycle ended the most advanced life-form found a way to make Himself exist into the following cycle. That life-form would be God!
You guys need to actually learn what evolution is before you start trying to shoot it down. Evolution is nothing to do with chance and is the only theory on how life was created that has stood the test of time, has mountains of evidence to back it up and no evidence to the contrary to disprove it. Unlike intelligent design.
If God was the designer of the universe then he clearly is a fool. And took a great interest in bacteria.
If you guys want to live your life by iron age mythology then you can keep it, but like Ganda said don’t try and preach to me your delusions and definitely don’t try and indoctrinate my children in school.
Maybe you should learn more about God before you shoot him down. I’m certainly not “Mr. Religion” but I don’t think teaching alternate theories would hurt anybody. Evolution has no more tangible “evidence” than any other theory, the links between species are always assumed, not proven. Darwin never actually proved anything, no links have ever been proven between humans and apes or otherwise. Adaptation is seen as proof of evolution and that is asinine in itself. There is till no reasonable theory on how it all began. Your scientists say “Nothing turned into something all of a sudden”…Wow, nice theory.
lostcause…Jesus most certainly existed, he’s on the ledgers of Roman law as well as many other non-biblical records. Whether you believe he was the Messiah is entirely up to you.
You couldn’t be more wrong. You clearly have no clue and we may as well as never had this conversation for all the chance you’ll change your mind. And because of that i am just going to leave at that and not bother with a response.
As Watasha said, there is evidence. Roman records, letters, historical writings (by Josephus, Suetonius, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, the Talmud, Lucian, and probably more).
I have researched evolution, and it may not in itself be chance. But the other ideas often stuck with it do (those ideas usually are necessary for evolution). Such as the conditions for life: Earth is in the perfect position, the right kind of galaxy, etc.
Have you looked at the evidence for intelligent design?
I might say, Intelligent Design is the only theory on how life was created that has stood the test of time, has mountains of evidence to back it up, and no evidence to the contrary to disprove it. Unlike evolution. What now? Does that really help prove anything?
If God was the designer of the universe then he clearly is a fool. And took a great interest in bacteria.
First, If a God created and designed the world, it does not mean the world will be perfect.
That is no valid argument, it seems. Maybe He has some ideas you don’t?
just to clarify again, i am not going to argue with people that make ridiculous statements like " Evolution has no more tangible “evidence” than any other theory". That’s like saying there is no evidence for the theory of gravity.
With the unimaginable number of planets and stars in the universe its almost certain that a planet will be just about the right distance from a star etc to support life.
I have tried but there is none.
But you can’t say that because Intelligent design hasn’t stood the test of time another superior theory had replaced it, named Evolution.
Firstly that doesn’t mean the existence of god is any more probable, Also a non perfect God is not the god that exist in any of today’s religions.
There are many more qualities needed…that was only a small example. The chance of getting them all is so tiny, even with all the plants and stars that there are.
Second, it would take time for everything to “line up” and get in position. But, using redshift, it has been shown that the universe is expanding. So we didn’t have unlimited time to get all together.
“But you can’t say that because Intelligent design hasn’t stood the test of time another superior theory had replaced it, named Evolution.”
I can’t find time or his website or books. Where is his reports on his tests?
“Firstly that doesn’t mean the existence of god is any more probable, Also a non perfect God is not the god that exist in any of today’s religions.”
I think some religions have minor imperfect gods. I may go into why a God would create a perfect world, and how it can become not good. But I don’t have time now.
[at] all combatants in the current evolution V intelligent design V Big ■■■■ Theory (I’m backing Sheldon BTW);
You may not agree with or understand the other persons perspectives, but everyone is equally entitled to their own belief system, regardless of what it is they believe in.
Supporters of a supreme being make a strong case.
Supporters of science also make a strong case.
Supporters of science point to Stephen Hawking and his incisive intellect.
Supporters of God point out that Stephen is still here.
There can never be a definitive answer to this type of question.
By all means, maintain your belief in whatever it is you choose to believe in, but be tolerant of the position of others.
Remember, only God and Sheldon Cooper Ph. D. are never wrong.
It means to be respectful of others’ positions. But it does not mean that the view they hold is correct…and it might be the right thing to try and change it, if it will effect them negatively.
It means to be respectful of others' positions. But it does not mean that the view they hold is correct...and it might be the right thing to try and change it, if it will effect them negatively.
That, Jeremy, is the disrespectful thing to do. You are young, and unwise, listen to your Elders.
[at] metalshaun: try to look at it like this: if humans are children, belief system (whether it’s religion or scientific theory) is like fairytale, it doesn’t have to be true as long as it teaches kindness to others. no one here try to spread delutions.
to be fair, it doesn’t mean the view YOU hold is correct either.
it’s good to have a belief system, hold on to it, keep it to yourself & don’t force it to others.
the phrase: “it doesn’t matter if you worship a stone as long as you don’t throw it at me” is directed to people like you.
[at] all: keep your emotion under control. we need female members O0
I think everyone (save one statement maybe) has been quite civil in this discussion. ;D
Laser, you’ve made some good points that I missed.
Ganda, I agree with your last post as well.
MetalShaun…Gravity is tangible because it “IS”. It’s happening right now, I can FEEL it. It doesn’t take a book or a scientist to judge and measure gravity. Evolution while an interesting and maybe even entirely possible theory, has NO tangible proof. It’s a theory, just like the theological one. You believe because a guy in a white coat writes a book that says it’s so. Others believe in God because someone else wrote in a book that says it’s so. The only difference is faith. If someone came out with a hot new theory and all of the major scientists in the world subscribed to it you would probably drop evolution for the new theory (it’s happened many times before). Religious people haven’t changed the basis of their theory in thousands of years…you gotta respect that.
As someone else pointed out, it equally means that your view may not be correct.
and it might be the right thing to try and change it, if it will effect them negatively.
and it might not be the right thing to do as well.
How comfortable are any of us when there is a pack of God-wallopers at the door trying to convince you that their form of religion is obviously superior to whatever you choose to believe in? I respect their right to their religion, just as I respect my right to choose my own path.
Look at Saint Thomas (who gave rise to the phrase “doubting Thomas”). He continually questioned his faith, not relying on the opinions or sayings of those around him (who, funnily enough, included the alleged authors of the Gospels) until he determined for himself that his faith was worth investing his belief in. He didn’t need anyone to “show him the way” - he looked for and found it himself.
