Author Topic: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)  (Read 32571 times)

Offline lordraiden

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2010, 09:18:42 AM »

let me explain the main point...

Main point: Norton readily admits Antivirus products miss malware......

Melih

But this is nothing new, and why this is important? they never said "our AV detects 100% of malware"

Offline Citizen K

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2010, 09:54:50 AM »
This is funny
PS: this power eraser could also delete your legit files though..so you must be careful....

Melih

The interface does show it is beta software and the EULA, which nobody usually reads, also informs us.

However the web page does not tell this and the program should have stated more clearly in the interface.

Offline Melih

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2010, 10:12:47 AM »
But this is nothing new, and why this is important? they never said "our AV detects 100% of malware"

to avoid double posting. I already replied here

as a side note: Where do they, in their marketing material ever admit that user's are not protected 100%?
they claim they prevent dangers in their website

here are some statements they make:

-Prevents botnets from taking control of your PC
-Prevents cybercriminals from using security holes in your web browser to load dangerous software onto your PC.
-Prevents unauthorized users from stealing your bandwidth and accessing your files
-Guards your PC against all kinds of cyber-threats without slowing down your computer or eating up system resources.


So lordraiden, where do you think a user is informed that actually Norton does NOT Prevent 100% of the above but only detects %age of it? To a user they will think Norton is all they need and they will be protected! This is false advertising at best imo!

thanks
Melih
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 10:22:07 AM by Melih »

Offline darcjrt

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2010, 12:53:03 PM »
The point here is that a traditional AV itself sucks. That is why COMODO brings DDP with layers of security. Symantec says themselfs, an AV is not enough. i say, an AV DOES NOT PROTECT!! No matter what software you use make sure you have layers of security and a DDP environment.
Best Regards,

J

Offline lordraiden

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2010, 01:21:47 PM »
to avoid double posting. I already replied here

as a side note: Where do they, in their marketing material ever admit that user's are not protected 100%?
they claim they prevent dangers in their website

here are some statements they make:

-Prevents botnets from taking control of your PC
-Prevents cybercriminals from using security holes in your web browser to load dangerous software onto your PC.
-Prevents unauthorized users from stealing your bandwidth and accessing your files
-Guards your PC against all kinds of cyber-threats without slowing down your computer or eating up system resources.


So lordraiden, where do you think a user is informed that actually Norton does NOT Prevent 100% of the above but only detects %age of it? To a user they will think Norton is all they need and they will be protected! This is false advertising at best imo!

thanks
Melih

So you do exactly the same:

http://www.comodo.com/home/internet-security/free-internet-security.php


# Comodo Internet Security
Features
    * Defends your PC from Internet attacks
    * Detects and eliminates viruses
    * Prevents malware from being installed I can never get infected


http://www.comodo.com/home/internet-security/antivirus.php

# Comodo Antivirus
#
Features

    * Detects, blocks, and destroys viruses I dont need anything else yuhuu xD
    * Immediate feedback on suspicious files JAJAJA  ;D
    * Protects with On Access scanning

You are been a hypocrite. This is a problem of all the security industry including Comodo.

So Melih, where do you think a user is informed that actually CIS does NOT Prevent 100% of the above but only detects %age of it? To a user they will think CIS is all they need and they will be protected! This is false advertising at best imo!
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 01:28:10 PM by lordraiden »

Offline Lunz

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2010, 02:47:32 PM »
Would you buy software that advertises itself as letting viruses through or that there is a possibility that you'll be hacked?  ;) I don't think so.^^

I think what Melih wants to say is that most security vendors claim their product to be perfect.
He didn't say that he excluded Comodo from that.

He just said an old AV Architecture like the one Norton uses is becoming obsolete. CIS, however, uses same AV Architecture but has other defense layers build around.

For marketing reasons, he will surely say: CIS is perfect.
I mean, a lot of people say the same when they want to sell you a washing machine ;)

And for the Norton Cleaning Tool mentioned a few posts before, I think Melih has the right to express his criticism about it. I even recall that a few months before, Symantec said that free AV Vendors like Comodo shouldn't be trusted. Only paid Products like Norton do the stuff.

From my experience, CIS is better than most paid products I've ever used. Only encountered one Problem with it so far since the 2 years I'm using it.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 03:00:49 PM by Lunz »

Offline Citizen K

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2010, 03:06:34 PM »
So you do exactly the same:

http://www.comodo.com/home/internet-security/free-internet-security.php


# Comodo Internet Security
Features
    * Defends your PC from Internet attacks
    * Detects and eliminates viruses
    * Prevents malware from being installed I can never get infected


http://www.comodo.com/home/internet-security/antivirus.php

# Comodo Antivirus
#
Features

    * Detects, blocks, and destroys viruses I dont need anything else yuhuu xD
    * Immediate feedback on suspicious files JAJAJA  ;D
    * Protects with On Access scanning

You are been a hypocrite. This is a problem of all the security industry including Comodo.

So Melih, where do you think a user is informed that actually CIS does NOT Prevent 100% of the above but only detects %age of it? To a user they will think CIS is all they need and they will be protected! This is false advertising at best imo!

You know that CIS by means of D+ will prevent the installation of malware.

Stop spreading blatant lies.

Offline lordraiden

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2010, 03:13:44 PM »
You know that CIS by means of D+ will prevent the installation of malware.

Stop spreading blatant lies.

Have you read the whole thread?, do you understand what I said and why? I dont think so

D+ prevent the installation of the 100% of malware?

Offline Chiron

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2010, 03:17:37 PM »
So you do exactly the same:

http://www.comodo.com/home/internet-security/free-internet-security.php


# Comodo Internet Security
Features
    * Defends your PC from Internet attacks
    * Detects and eliminates viruses
    * Prevents malware from being installed I can never get infected


http://www.comodo.com/home/internet-security/antivirus.php

# Comodo Antivirus
#
Features

    * Detects, blocks, and destroys viruses I dont need anything else yuhuu xD
    * Immediate feedback on suspicious files JAJAJA  ;D
    * Protects with On Access scanning

You are been a hypocrite. This is a problem of all the security industry including Comodo.

So Melih, where do you think a user is informed that actually CIS does NOT Prevent 100% of the above but only detects %age of it? To a user they will think CIS is all they need and they will be protected! This is false advertising at best imo!

I tried to make the same argument at one time (although not quite as angry). ;D Here is my post:
http://forums.comodo.com/melihs-corner-ceo-talkdiscussionsblog/is-the-antivirus-biggest-fraud-in-the-security-world-t53232.0.html;msg381286#msg381286

I believe Melih's response, along with knowledge of the uses of Defense+, perfectly answers the question. Please read.

Offline Chiron

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2010, 03:20:20 PM »
    * Immediate feedback on suspicious files JAJAJA  ;D
Okay, maybe that is a good point. ;D

However, I do disagree with you about most of the rest. What would you like to see Comodo do differently?

Offline lordraiden

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2010, 03:20:34 PM »
I tried to make the same argument at one time (although not quite as angry). ;D Here is my post:
http://forums.comodo.com/melihs-corner-ceo-talkdiscussionsblog/is-the-antivirus-biggest-fraud-in-the-security-world-t53232.0.html;msg381286#msg381286

I believe Melih's response, along with knowledge of the uses of Defense+, perfectly answers the question. Please read.

 ???
So if Defense+ is 100% safe why make a sanbox+AV+firewall+BB+CTM+...+...

Offline lordraiden

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2010, 03:22:57 PM »
Okay, maybe that is a good point. ;D

However, I do disagree with you about most of the rest. What would you like to see Comodo do differently?

The claims that comodo does about CIS in their website are exactly the same with the same purpose and background that norton, avg, nod... or any other security vendor does.

So I agree with Melih, that comodo, norton, and many others lies in their websites.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 03:24:38 PM by lordraiden »

Offline Chiron

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2010, 03:27:24 PM »
???
So if Defense+ is 100% safe why make a sanbox+AV+firewall+BB+CTM+...+...
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought those were more for usability purposes. Essentially for the same reason they introduced the whitelist.

Firewall: This is necessary as it complements Defense+ and I don't believe it belongs in this list.

AV: Will catch most (hopefully) bad files before the user makes a decision. This makes it much less likely they will allow a malicious application to run

BB: Same reasoning as the AV only it works differently

Sandbox: Essentially this is an automatic form of Defense+ so that the user will not have to answer any questions. At least this is the idea behind it. I think it still needs some work to make it more usable.

CTM: This is used if the AV/BB miss the malware application and the user allows it because they believe it is safe. You can then fix the computer if you find out later that the file was malicious and it can't be removed.

I believe this is how these are supposed to work. I don't understand your argument.

Offline Citizen K

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2010, 03:31:06 PM »
Have you read the whole thread?, do you understand what I said and why? I dont think so

D+ prevent the installation of the 100% of malware?
D+ is capable of catching almost all malware upon installation.

I was referring to the fact that Melih is arguing that a new signature based solution is not gonna cut the mustard as prevention of signature based solutions is not enough in its self.

If I am not mistaken, but I must say I never installed it as I always used the complete suite, the Comodo AV has D+ active.
???
So if Defense+ is 100% safe why make a sanbox+AV+firewall+BB+CTM+...+...
You are around long enough to know that sandbox, av and bb are very much there to lessen the amount of alerts from D+'s default deny strategy. Users make mistakes; so there is a potential source of getting infected. Luckily CTM brings a solution to go back in time to get rid off an infection.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 03:36:33 PM by EricJH »

Offline lordraiden

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Re: The Good, The Bad and The UGLY (ugly because its unknown!!)
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2010, 04:47:46 PM »
Do you belive what are you saying? so if I execute any malware in the world D+ is going to stop it the 100% of the times... Taking into account that D+ is going to ask me about to execute any file we could say yes, but them UAC is also 100% efficient.
If we accept to execute the file and them we block the rest of alerts some malwares will infect the computer anyway, every release of comodo has bugs, bugs of D+ bugs of the sandbox...

Melih started to laugh about the new scanner of norton, let me remember the SUPER Comodo Cloud scanner so everybody can laugh now.
Norton has AV with Behaviour Blocker, whitelist, blaklist, greylist, cloudAV, firewall, and also system protection like D+ but light, and many other technologies. So the only thing that comodo has and Norton not is the sandbox and that its something relatively new in comodo. Without mention that Noton AV is much better than CAV. So you can use sandboxie+Norton and you will get a better protection, the only problem is that you need to pay for norton, anyway the web is plenty of AV's better than CAV

Anyway I use Comodo, I like it, I would like to see someday a comodo with BB and cloudAV (comodo has a big comunity), but I think that comodo need to improve a lot and fix a lot of problems before criticize the others.

It's possible to smell the arrogance in this forums sometimes, and this is the major bug of comodo.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 04:53:18 PM by lordraiden »

 

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