Author Topic: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!  (Read 57025 times)

Offline Ovidiu G.

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2010, 07:06:22 AM »
Do you really think you will be safe if you run an antivirus program?

If you do, then you are MAD, MAD, MAD!!!! :)

Melih

Hello,

I do not think anyone is mad when he believe to be protected when
he use a classic AV program, but I am sure that the true madness
is when, as user, you are convinced to buy a product which claims
to provide protection but in reality, you are just added to the list
of users that improves the detection rate (due to new malwares that
you will catch). But you thought you are protected...  >:-D

In my opinion the problem occurs when a user must decide wich security
suite will use and if he has all information necessary for the correct
product. Most computers already have on purchase a security system
preinstalled, ads are very aggressive on the market and always will be
promoted the classic AV products with the highest rate of detection
which, will NEVER provide protection against newest malwares in the wild.
I do not think it is a surprise that classical AV products are running on
the most computers in the world and users will consider to be safe because
they are not convinced of the existence of alternative products based on
prevention technologies wich are able to prevent the infections of the
newest malwares!

An advanced user will know that a product like Comodo combining other
technologies than a classic AV product (Default Deny Protection, HIPS,
Sandbox, AV, Firewall, etc.) will ensure the most searched protection
against the newst malwares in the wild but a novice user will not be
convinced that such a product is safer than one that has a detection
rate of 99.99%! In this era, who have information, will rule the world!
Therefore, the information on safe alternatives to AV products must reach
novice users in their language, so that they can be convinced that there
is something more secure than a AV product with 99,99% detection rate!
Then we will see how the balance will change to the new user option and then
indeed, you are mad thinking to be safe using a antivirus program. :)

Comodo presents a powerful alternative against of AV products and this
alternative must be known by everyone, especially by users without
much computer knowledge!  :-TU

Best Regards,
Ovidiu

Offline Melih

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2010, 09:00:57 AM »
Hello,

I do not think anyone is mad when he believe to be protected when
he use a classic AV program, but I am sure that the true madness
is when, as user, you are convinced to buy a product which claims
to provide protection but in reality, you are just added to the list
of users that improves the detection rate (due to new malwares that
you will catch). But you thought you are protected...  >:-D


This is too funny, but sadly so true!!!!

Excellent point!

thanks

Melih

Offline Dch48

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2010, 12:53:51 PM »
But what about the people who use AV's and don't ever get infected in over a decade of computer usage?  They do exist, and in great numbers. I want my protection to stay out of my face and give the protection it gives with no interaction required from me. HIPS based apps just don't do that. To say that AV products provide no protection is just not true. I still think NIS is the best suite to provide good silent protection. Avast! Internet Security is also getting good reviews and has a sandbox that is on demand and actually works. Please don't cite Matousec tests. They are tests of HIPS systems which I want no part of any more.
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Offline Melih

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2010, 01:01:52 PM »
But what about the people who use AV's and don't ever get infected in over a decade of computer usage?  They do exist, and in great numbers.

How about AV users who paid a lot of $$ and still get infected? how about them? Were they protected by what they paid for? In 2008 1.2Million people in the US bought a brand new PC because they had infection in their PCs and this it the only way they knew how to solve the problem...buy a new PC...how about them Dch48???

Melih


PS: Just because few people didn't get infected doesn't make an AntiVirus product more secure, it just makes those people "Lucky few".
« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 01:04:29 PM by Melih »

Offline burebista

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2010, 01:47:31 PM »
To say that AV products provide no protection is just not true.
Classic standalone AV's with signatures are useless in front of 0 day malware.
That's why I don't use any AV, FW and D+ are more than enough. Doubled by common sense and some browsing protection (for me AdBlock and NoScript) and in 13 years of browsing I'm clean.
TBH I like Comodo's 3 layers philosophy:

Layer 1 - First line of Defense.
PREVENTION: Defense+ (HIPS), Buffer Overflow Protection (Built into Defense+), Firewall.

Layer 2 - Second line of Defense
DETECTION: Anti-Virus, Including Heuristics and the Memory Scanner based on BO-Clean.

Layer 3 - Third line of Defense.
CURE: Comodo Time Machine

I'm relying only on Prevention and Cure and I'm satisfied.
If it ain't broke... fix it until it is.

Offline Ovidiu G.

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2010, 06:28:10 PM »
But what about the people who use AV's and don't ever get infected in over a decade of computer usage?  They do exist, and in great numbers.
1. They got lucky..
2. Had minimal activity on the computer that has reduced very much the contact with the newest malware and hence the feeling of being safe..
3. They were very smart and they know what to access or install - that means only advanced users and of course luck..
I want my protection to stay out of my face and give the protection it gives with no interaction required from me.
I do not think there is or will exist in future a internet security suite that does not interact with the user, at least at minimum
HIPS based apps just don't do that. To say that AV products provide no protection is just not true.
HIPS based application interacts with user but a HIPS based application + Sandbox will interact with the minimum possible. I'm not saying that an AV not provide protection, but after seven years in which I tried very many
internet security suits, I can say that protection does not mean to stop only the known malware (for which there is already signature) but also those unknown threats!

Offline Dch48

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2010, 07:34:28 PM »
1. They got lucky..
2. Had minimal activity on the computer that has reduced very much the contact with the newest malware and hence the feeling of being safe..
3. They were very smart and they know what to access or install - that means only advanced users and of course luck..I do not think there is or will exist in future a internet security suite that does not interact with the user, at least at minimumHIPS based application interacts with user but a HIPS based application + Sandbox will interact with the minimum possible. I'm not saying that an AV not provide protection, but after seven years in which I tried very many
internet security suits, I can say that protection does not mean to stop only the known malware (for which there is already signature) but also those unknown threats!
I'm fully aware that I'm not as safe without a HIPS but I'm willing to take the chance seeing that I am one of those people who has never gotten infected. I have not had minimal activity either. I've used instant messengers, accessed chat rooms, used P2P apps (including for a while Limewire), and played online games as well as browsing extensively with no other browser than IE and using no other email program than Outlook Express. The same is true for the other members of my family and my friends. I have had no more than 10 attempts at infection since 1999 with every one being blocked by the AV I was using at the time. The AV I am currently using has a behavior shield and pretty good heuristics as well so I feel pretty good.
If Comodo gets the sandbox working right where it actually recognizes installers and updaters and stops sandboxing things after you have told it not to and if the whitelist will include at least the most popular games, then I might be willing to give it another try. Not before then though.
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Offline xiuhcoatl

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2010, 07:46:55 PM »
I'm fully aware that I'm not as safe without a HIPS but I'm willing to take the chance seeing that I am one of those people who has never gotten infected.
That you know of!

Famous last words. LoL  (:LGH)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 07:48:32 PM by xiuhcoatl »
When things go wrong, and they usually will,and your daily road, seems all uphill, when machines are down,and tempers high, when you try to smile, but can only cry,and you really feel you'd like to quit, don't run to me I don't give a sh*t.
(A semi retired systems analyst's credo)

Offline Dch48

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2010, 11:48:39 PM »
No--that I am absolutely sure of since no scanners have ever found anything and I've never encountered any problems.
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Offline Ovidiu G.

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2010, 03:16:11 AM »
No--that I am absolutely sure of since no scanners have ever found anything and I've never encountered any problems.

Before, as I used the AV classic, I always scanned the computer with several scanners
and never found anything. But I was unpleasantly surprised several times as my computer
was infected and the virus scanners did not reported it..

Offline SiberLynx

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2010, 05:03:20 AM »
Quote from: Dch48
...But what about the people who use AV's and don't ever get infected in over a decade of computer usage? They do exist, and in great numbers.
Hi  Dch48,
As you noticed (I hope ) I do agree with you on many points & the same time it happens that I do not... ;)

Please don't get it wrong , but you are repeating this message over & over again including “safe use of  MS Internet Explorer”

My answer to you – you are just don't do “stuff” &/or not testing malware out there. Period!
That is your own safe style of using PC & the Internet as a whole.

… but if you would go “step left / step right” from that pattern you (as anyone) here – is a Goner!!! Big Time!

Neither Comodo with its “Deny” policy  nor any other security will help …

Please get a “special” PC ; be adventurousness and Go ahead! Try please. You will be infested with infections in no time, believe me.

The Defense + is not an entity of the Firewall anyway.
 Nobody can rely on it. Not many people do understand its messages and despite many requests to improve on that – Comodo developers did nothing - they just ignoring that

Instead they introduced weak ( softly speaking) “not-a-sandbox”, which is  just a  “Software colander” - any serious infection will escape. It creates problems only and false sense of security with all the  subsequent dangers

Please do not post the advices like: “You can make v4 work as the latest v3 with just a few tweaks”... enough of that!
Nobody needs tweaks and most of the users do not understand the essence of those those “tweaks”.
Many (how many? - just read) disabling it - but that is not an answer. 

Quote from: Melih
How about AV users who paid a lot of $$ and still get infected? how about them? Were they protected by what they paid for?
Sure not ! You are right here … but you are wrong with the way you are going.
You will get less protection soon and users will find the set of free security layers that will be better than Comodo whole Suite.
Comodo's AV never was and never will be the one... anyway as you said the AV (any) is not an answer ... & this one was developed just because of an "alleged" convenience of having the Suite ... that is not working solution as I can see it
 
The only strong hold here is still the latest Firewall v3.14... well and even v2.... hehe!  :) without Defense+

Quote from: Dch48
I'm fully aware that I'm not as safe without a HIPS but I'm willing to take the chance seeing that I am one of those people who has never gotten infected.

You are the one!  :) but Comopdo's HIPS is not an answer … neither the “not-a-sandbox”
The Behavioural Blocker … probably... if that on will not be integrated (God forbid!)
I am happy with Mamutu currently … there are other details but mainly we are talking about “Free range” products...

Quote from: Ovidiu G
1. They got lucky..
True!
Quote from: Ovidiu G
...I do not think there is or will exist in future a internet security suite that does not interact with the user
very True as well

Quote from:
Is Comodo Internet Security the way to Protection against Zero Day Attacks?

The answer is strongest No!.... sorry

Cheers!
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Offline Melih

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2010, 09:03:56 AM »
hi SiberLynx

If you can show us which malware will jump out of our sandbox, we will be more than happy to fix it.

thanks
Melih

Offline Dch48

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2010, 01:53:21 PM »
Hi  Dch48,
As you noticed (I hope ) I do agree with you on many points & the same time it happens that I do not... ;)

Please don't get it wrong , but you are repeating this message over & over again including “safe use of  MS Internet Explorer”

My answer to you – you are just don't do “stuff” &/or not testing malware out there. Period!
That is your own safe style of using PC & the Internet as a whole.

… but if you would go “step left / step right” from that pattern you (as anyone) here – is a Goner!!! Big Time!

Neither Comodo with its “Deny” policy  nor any other security will help …

Please get a “special” PC ; be adventurousness and Go ahead! Try please. You will be infested with infections in no time, believe me.

The Defense + is not an entity of the Firewall anyway.
 Nobody can rely on it. Not many people do understand its messages and despite many requests to improve on that – Comodo developers did nothing - they just ignoring that

Instead they introduced weak ( softly speaking) “not-a-sandbox”, which is  just a  “Software colander” - any serious infection will escape. It creates problems only and false sense of security with all the  subsequent dangers 
I'm not about to purposely go to infested sites and purposely test malware. I only have this one machine and can't afford another one right now. At the same time, I don't stay away from things unless told to by IE8 through the smart screen filter, Avast! through it's web shield and network shields, or even sometimes by the Comodo DNS. I'm sure that I could be infected by testing out the newest malware that is not recognized yet by scanners but I have no desire whatsoever to find out.
I do agree with you about the sandbox though. I can't say it lets malware jump out since I haven't had any but I can say that it lets things in it still make permanent changes to the system. It sandboxed part of the Steam updating process but the updates were still successfully applied. It also sandboxed the part of the game Team Fortress 2 that connects to the servers but it was still able to make connections to the Internet. It is like a colander but it filters too much and does not work as advertised. The main thing I don't like about it is that it's automatic. I realize this is the intent but I just don't like it because it causes more usability problems for me than it eliminates.
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Offline Tech

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2010, 05:14:14 PM »
I think you could achieve a very good protection with some products.
The use of the safer browser you can achieve (with addons to increase security), a firewall, an antivirus/antimalware and HIPS you can have it.
The antivirus alone can't give you all the protection. But it is a must have item in the list imho.
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Offline Dch48

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2010, 07:05:50 PM »
I feel pretty safe right now with my current setup. I would probably be safer with D+ enabled but I can't deal with it any more. Avast! has shields that protect from almost everything and does a pretty good job of blocking new threats as well. They have promised to make that even better by improving the Behavior Shield module. I guess I'm one of those who prefer the default allow approach. It just makes things so much smoother and enjoyable.
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