Author Topic: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!  (Read 56594 times)

Offline SiberLynx

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2010, 03:23:48 AM »
Hi Guys,
Do you really think you will be safe if you run an antivirus program?
If you do, then you are MAD, MAD, MAD!!!! :) Melih
Nope, but I can run GesWall and will be completely sure that my PC is clean.
Hi  bequick,

the “Nope”  may apply to the Melih's term “MAD”. That is a bit harsh (I think)

Neither mad, nor crazy, no insane … but just a tiny little bit more safe than “completely unsafe” - that's all

I disagreed with Melih on many points including current v4 implementations, but I may agree with him here (except the “mad”-terminology :) ).

AVs, basically any AV – are losers in this war – we are not safe with them.

...but I disagree with your statement, bequick  that you are “ completely sure” that your PC is clean running GesWall... or actually anything else.

I am not going into unneeded debate here, that there is no such security that can provide us with 100% security/protection

Only the computer that was never connected to Internet / LAN  and that is  switched off – is safe

As soon as you switch  it on;   have connection enabled (wired  or  wireless);  WOL is on / or... “bluetooth”  is near you :) ; etc... you “have a chance”

No need to be paranoid, but there is no such thing as “completely sure”  

Finally, the topic was about AV & GesWall is not that in any case... meaning... I am not sure why it was mentioned here

My regards

p.s. a side note addressed to Melih - you'r absolutely right! that there is basically no protection when one is using  AV ... that's old stuff;
we cannot rely on it completely ...
So, once again (and as many users here already pointed out)  why would you  spend time  &  resources; your talented developers' brains-power for developing AV in the 1st place  ???,
... when you could improve and make existing Firewall more powerful.
Few of my friends are still using the latest 2.4, doing "crazy stuff" and still are protected excellently
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 03:28:30 AM by SiberLynx »
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Offline arjunpa

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2010, 04:30:30 AM »
Syberlynx, i think the point of developing an AV is important as it is necessary to protect users who do not have internet connection. From what? From viruses which propogate through removabale drives.
It is also important to cure an infection. Then again if everyone uses a rightly configured firewall then the chance of these users getting infected is minimal.
Take the example of my school. They dont care to install a firewall in computers of the computer lab neither they let us install something which is good. Thus there are many students who do not have internet and must depend on internet connection in the lab. Thus they become infected.

 
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Offline SiberLynx

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2010, 04:57:53 AM »
Syberlynx, i think the point of developing an AV is important as it is necessary to protect users who do not have internet connection....
Hi arjunpa ,
I am not arguing with you ... unfortunately AV is still important,

... but I was supporting Melih's note that it is not an answer at all for providing security/protection nowadays.
...users who do not have internet connection. From what? From viruses which propogate through removabale drives.
In this case AV is much less or rather practically ineffective. You have to update it... with no connection ... you sure can bring signatures (or portable AV/anti-malware) on removable media ... pain in the neck and not all AVs are supporting that
Then, you will be definitely late already in any case for zero-day/hour

... and then if AutoRuns are not disabled Globally through the system(s) & environments, which you are describing... what we are talking about anyway, speaking about removable media and its dangers?

But most importantly I was just surprised by mentioning GesWall here because that doesn't fit here as far as I understand.... That's mainly it.

Cheers!
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Offline arjunpa

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2010, 09:19:19 AM »
Hi arjunpa ,
 In this case AV is much less or rather practically ineffective. You have to update it... with no connection ... you sure can bring signatures (or portable AV/anti-malware) on removable media ... pain in the neck and not all AVs are supporting that
Then, you will be definitely late already in any case for zero-day/hour

... and then if AutoRuns are not disabled Globally through the system(s) & environments, which you are describing... what we are talking about anyway, speaking about removable media and its dangers?

But most importantly I was just surprised by mentioning GesWall here because that doesn't fit here as far as I understand.... That's mainly it.

Cheers!
I didnt think of that in the first place because i used to copy updates from my computer to my friend's pcs. So i am sorry.!!!

By the way Everything is cool syberlynx.
Everyone is tensed up regarding security.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 09:23:32 AM by arjunpa »
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Offline Melih

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2010, 01:32:39 PM »
AV is for Usability
AV is for Marketing purposes. its cheaper to develop a top notch AV then educate 1.2B users about Prevention being a better solution.

Melih

Offline vigen

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2010, 10:02:56 AM »
CIS 4 goes you he(it) in the right direction of the safety(security)?

One can only thank the company COMODO for supplying quality software.

Because when one know a little the mass of supplied work, it is not necessary hesitated has to greet the free access(wantonness).

Only Here we are, CIS 4 is not really pret to replace the version 3.

The strategic choice of the sandbox is debatable. Succumbed has a fashion or a reality éfficacité?
Number of software publishers includes one, but her(it) often is to bugger.
Why from then on, not to have to implement the antivirus engine of the version 4, to to leave defense + equals has the version 3 (tres effective), and, if it was absolutely necessary to integrate(join) something again not to create a function(office) of hostile address?
A lot nobody return has the version 3.
Personally as things stand at the present, I would not pass under the version 4, because, under seven 64 bits I have too many bugs (incompatibility wow64 and of the sandbox? I do not know), and he(it) is out of the question that I do not use any more my usual software has

Offline Dch48

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2010, 06:29:08 PM »
You are not completely safe by only running an AV but there is no question that you are safer than if you don't run one. There are also other tools like Malwarebytes that you can use to remove anything that may get past an AV. Many people still use nothing but the Windows firewall and their AV of choice and have very few if any problems.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 06:33:52 PM by Dch48 »
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Offline Ringman

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2010, 10:18:54 AM »
Thinking it's better than don't have.



Offline knk2006

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2010, 12:36:55 PM »
a Firewall is something essential , no doubt about it .However, the AV is not !! .. why ? because you don't need it , if you just visit trusted websites , update your browser and system . you may ask >? what about those viruses the come with the removable media .. ? I will answer , that's too old Microsoft already patched this and there is an article which describes how you can turn off this auto Run feature .. Nevertheless , a firewall must be installed and we all know why  >:(

for example , my brother is running on xp sp3 latest update , I can't recall a time at which he asked for help or something ! ?

so Melih is right !!  Anti virus is not needed ( to protect your computer ) << if your computer already infected that's another long story

regards  :)

Offline Watasha

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2010, 05:18:21 PM »
a Firewall is something essential , no doubt about it .However, the AV is not !! .. why ? because you don't need it , if you just visit trusted websites , update your browser and system . you may ask >? what about those viruses the come with the removable media .. ? I will answer , that's too old Microsoft already patched this and there is an article which describes how you can turn off this auto Run feature .. Nevertheless , a firewall must be installed and we all know why  >:(

for example , my brother is running on xp sp3 latest update , I can't recall a time at which he asked for help or something ! ?

so Melih is right !!  Anti virus is not needed ( to protect your computer ) << if your computer already infected that's another long story

regards  :)

The point is not everyone goes to lily white sites all the time. Some people may get a little tipsy and stray to the "dark side" from time (including myself). Many people are click-happy. You've got to understand that people in these security forums are vastly in the minority and use their computers accordingly so if you base you're security theories on these users you will be WAY off. Use what works for you, however, realize that you are not everyone else.
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Offline Saxuality

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2010, 05:27:47 PM »
I don't use an AV on all of my systems - Mac, Linux, Win 7. They all have default firewalls enabled. Never had a problem.

Security producs are a waste for me. They just bring bugs and FP's with them.
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Security software makers should be thankful for malware writers and hackers for their multi billion dollar businesses. Ironic isn't it?

Offline knk2006

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2010, 06:18:44 PM »
I go to dark sites without an Antivirus  , but with D+ enabled  ;) and I'm still safe  8)

Offline usanzac

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2010, 04:25:55 PM »
Do you really think you will be safe if you run an antivirus program?

If you do, then you are MAD, MAD, MAD!!!! :)

Melih

Part of the problem, to which you have alluded elsewhere, is the novice/expert divide.  For me, the perfect solution is CIS and its firewall/sandbox defense.  I am comfortable enough to configure/teach it as I go along and maximize my self-protection.

The problem is that is simply not a workable solution for the vast majority of my clients who want the security of *something* protecting them with minimal interaction on their part.  As has been said, this is not really protection at all.

The solution, in my mind, would take an industry initiative.  What if *all* executables were registered, contained a checksum and/or signature and that this was a standard such that a far more simple security paradigm could be enabled and defeat almost 100% of malware?  This for the typical end-user, of course (software developers would need something different).

There's obviously a lot more to this than makes sense to post here but am I so far off base?  Will anti-malware developers support or fight such an initiative?

Best,
Espy

Offline Melih

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2010, 04:31:30 PM »
Part of the problem, to which you have alluded elsewhere, is the novice/expert divide.  For me, the perfect solution is CIS and its firewall/sandbox defense.  I am comfortable enough to configure/teach it as I go along and maximize my self-protection.

The problem is that is simply not a workable solution for the vast majority of my clients who want the security of *something* protecting them with minimal interaction on their part.  As has been said, this is not really protection at all.

The solution, in my mind, would take an industry initiative.  What if *all* executables were registered, contained a checksum and/or signature and that this was a standard such that a far more simple security paradigm could be enabled and defeat almost 100% of malware?  This for the typical end-user, of course (software developers would need something different).

There's obviously a lot more to this than makes sense to post here but am I so far off base?  Will anti-malware developers support or fight such an initiative?

Best,
Espy

Indeed your solution would work Espy, and its the one I am pushing for in the industry...but i don't see it happening anytime soon :(
In the meanwhile we are creating this whitelist.

Melih

Offline clockwork

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Re: Running Antivirus thinking you will be safe......Madness!!!
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2010, 05:25:23 PM »
[at]Melih
i like the firewall and the defense+.
defense+ is what you call the more important point than antivirus.

but, when i tested your CIS with(!) its antivirus, what a surprise, defense+ is banned out of the main page of the userinterface. you CANT see with one view if the defense+ has blocked something, or holding something for review, or even if it is set to the mode you want it to be.

and if you have set a password, you need to type it before, to get this informations.

the style of (suite) userinterface is the OPPOSITE of what you are telling. a BIG space for antivirus but NO SPACE for defense+.

in my eyes, two little lines for antivirus would be enough:
statefull, update date
number of virus found.
all this white space, and no defense+. i really wonder about that.

defense+ is YOUR big point, and a big point at all. why not bring it (back) to the suite userinterface mainpage.....



« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 06:26:57 PM by clockwork »
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