Author Topic: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!  (Read 98006 times)

Offline wasgij6

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2011, 01:49:12 AM »
They could also be used for detection, and then at least you know if a problem is present.

if CIS does detect something then you will get an alert through the realtime scanner.

to me i can see Comodo going the way of removing the cleaning portions of CIS and adding them to CCE and when someone installs CIS there will be a message telling them to use CCE to scan there computer to make sure its clean.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 01:51:04 AM by wasgij6 »
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Offline captainsticks

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2011, 01:56:41 AM »
Prevention (Protection) in all aspects of life makes a lot of sense (Malware protection included). Human immunizations is a good example, if a severe illness is preventable that beats any cure. Protection has hardly any side effects, where as cures always come at a cost. Don't wait for a disease,illness, accident, malware or any other bad things in life if a relatively simple protection method is avalaible. I can certainly say protecting your computer is a lot easier than cleaning it. Kind regards.  

Offline captainsticks

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2011, 02:06:01 AM »
if CIS does detect something then you will get an alert through the realtime scanner.


Imo manual scanning could pick something up that real time has missed, having cloud lookup and rootkit scanning capabilities in manual scans. Also if malware is sitting idle (not executed) real time won't pick it up.

Offline wasgij6

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2011, 08:40:58 PM »
so cce and cis are going to stay seperate products? personally i think that comodo should put cce into cis and keep a portable version for techys that clean computers. my reasoning is if someone accidently allows a piece of malware into their system they can easily clean it with the same product. cce should have its own seperate tab in cis with killswitch and then DACS can be used in ondemand scanning and the realtime scanner of the AV. This will really help comodo gain popularity for a rock solid cleaning and protection suite. Most average users dont want to have to download and install another product when they get infected. This is just my thoughts
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Offline Verilee

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2011, 02:27:03 PM »
I work as an IT consultant, and many of my customers call me because they have infected PCs and don't know what to do. Interesting enough, 99% of those infected PCs ran Avira (both free and premium versions), and I really wonder how Avira gets its good scores in those "tests". But this is the difference of tests and the real life. However, that is another topic.

So, whenever possible, I recommend to wipe the disk, then reinstall and use Comodo. When this is not possible, because no backups exist, or reinstalling everything is extremely time consuming, then I use Comodo to clean it (or MBAM when there is no working internet connection, I always have a current version with me on a stick, and also to verify Comodo's work after cleaning). Then, when internet connection is reestablished, Comodo is the app of choice to protect.

I could as well sell the standard, costly applications to my customers, that would even make me a bit of money, but I cannot sell inferior products when the best is free, and at the same time telling my customers that I really want the best for them.

However, Comodo keeps their PCs secure, as none of those customers have experienced new infections since.

So, from that point of view, both is important to me, and both, cleaning and protecting, should be covered by one package.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 02:36:52 PM by Verilee »

Offline captainsticks

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2011, 05:15:23 PM »
Hi Verilee. I have no doubt that Comodo is the app of choice for protection.
I work as an IT consultant, and many of my customers call me because they have infected PCs and don't know what to do. Interesting enough, 99% of those infected PCs ran Avira
!ot! I think sometimes products are location orientated, for example AVG is very common in my area (Slowly converting them).
So if their is an outbreak that penetrates various security apps, it will show a higher percentage penetrated AVG (to the repairers), because it has a higher percentage of users in this area. It may have penetrated others but AVG looks worse in percentages. Kind regards.

Offline guven

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2011, 04:39:50 AM »
NEDEN BURADA HERŞEY İNGİLİZCE.. FORUMUN TÜRKÇE BÖLÜMÜ YOK MU ?

Offline Jacob

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2011, 04:41:17 AM »
Turkish Board is found here
https://forums.comodo.com/turkce-turkish-b31.0/

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Thanks....Jake

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Offline BlueGuppy

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2011, 02:10:43 AM »
It becomes far too easy to incorporate a cleaning mechanism into an antivirus product.  The problem with it is that in instances where a rootkit has infected a critical system file, the software has to be able to replace it rather than delete it.  This is where more specialized software excels. 

In my opinion, the antivirus should perform well enough to protect the average user from most of the prevalent infections.  If serious infection occurs, call out the specialized removal software.  Removal software, if already on board at the time of the infection can also be prevented from running correctly by malware. It is better to have it available rather than on the machine.

Offline Melih

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2011, 01:16:54 PM »
It becomes far too easy to incorporate a cleaning mechanism into an antivirus product.  The problem with it is that in instances where a rootkit has infected a critical system file, the software has to be able to replace it rather than delete it.  This is where more specialized software excels. 

In my opinion, the antivirus should perform well enough to protect the average user from most of the prevalent infections.  If serious infection occurs, call out the specialized removal software.  Removal software, if already on board at the time of the infection can also be prevented from running correctly by malware. It is better to have it available rather than on the machine.

And somoeone who knows what they are talking about!

Thank you BlueGuppy!

Melih

Offline jay2007tech

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2011, 04:50:21 PM »
Quote
It becomes far too easy to incorporate a cleaning mechanism into an antivirus product.  The problem with it is that in instances where a rootkit has infected a critical system file, the software has to be able to replace it rather than delete it.  This is where more specialized software excels.

In my opinion, the antivirus should perform well enough to protect the average user from most of the prevalent infections.  If serious infection occurs, call out the specialized removal software.  Removal software, if already on board at the time of the infection can also be prevented from running correctly by malware. It is better to have it available rather than on the machine.
+1

Quote
I work as an IT consultant, and many of my customers call me because they have infected PCs and don't know what to do. Interesting enough, 99% of those infected PCs ran Avira (both free and premium versions), and I really wonder how Avira gets its good scores in those "tests". But this is the difference of tests and the real life. However, that is another topic.
I would  post a link, but it's agaist the rules.  Avira is a very good product.  In fact, some malware authors say(in so many words) if you can get it to infect avira, the the rest of the AV's will be easy.   If you take a malware that's detected by all AV Companys for example, doing a few minor things then most AV's most won't be able to detect it.  malware authers have to work extra hard to get it to pass avira.(Feel free to try it yourself to see what I'm talking about)  Avira has very good dectection ratings, I don't need no test to tell me that.

As always prevention should always be the highest priority, not detection 
It's hard being a crooked Admin when the files won't pass an md5checksum test.  But like any other good crooked Admin it can be done, it just takes time(and lots of it) and a few aspirins

Offline knk2006

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2011, 09:24:28 PM »

I would  post a link, but it's agaist the rules.  Avira is a very good product.  In fact, some malware authors say(in so many words) if you can get it to infect avira, the the rest of the AV's will be easy.   If you take a malware that's detected by all AV Companys for example, doing a few minor things then most AV's most won't be able to detect it.  malware authers have to work extra hard to get it to pass avira.(Feel free to try it yourself to see what I'm talking about)  Avira has very good dectection ratings, I don't need no test to tell me that.

As always prevention should always be the highest priority, not detection 

yeah that's the case in making a detected backdoor, for example , goes undetected using something called " Fudding "  , FUD stands for " fully undetectable ". it's so hard to encrypt something from Avira and Panda. However, people sill can FUD from Avira so those signatures which are made to detect the encrypted malware are not effective when you compare it to behavior blockers or HIPS.  ;)

Offline Verilee

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2011, 04:36:15 AM »
+1
Avira is a very good product.  In fact, some malware authors say(in so many words) if you can get it to infect avira, the the rest of the AV's will be easy.   If you take a malware that's detected by all AV Companys for example, doing a few minor things then most AV's most won't be able to detect it.  malware authers have to work extra hard to get it to pass avira.(Feel free to try it yourself to see what I'm talking about)  Avira has very good dectection ratings, I don't need no test to tell me that.

This is something that I have experienced differently. I doubt the capabilities of Avira, because, in the past 12 months, I have had about 25 infected systems, all but one running Avira. Avira didn't react, was still running properly after the infection, and a scan gave no results. Most of them had the premium version, btw.

Whatever tool I used to clean, including MSE, Malwarebytes, MWAV and Vipre, each of them cleaned those systems. On some systems I even scanned with all the above mentioned, and also with Avira, just to check detection rating. Avira did not detect a single malware infection, whereas the others detected more or less the same.

This is why I am not convinced of Avira. I don't care about tests, these were real encounters I had. If others have better experiences, fine  :) I am not bashing on products.



It becomes far too easy to incorporate a cleaning mechanism into an antivirus product.  The problem with it is that in instances where a rootkit has infected a critical system file, the software has to be able to replace it rather than delete it.  This is where more specialized software excels.  

In my opinion, the antivirus should perform well enough to protect the average user from most of the prevalent infections.  If serious infection occurs, call out the specialized removal software.  Removal software, if already on board at the time of the infection can also be prevented from running correctly by malware. It is better to have it available rather than on the machine.

I fully agree. Prevention is always better.

What I meant before is just, people who I am talking to are more convinced about certain solutions if they can not only protect, but also clean. See, I come on site, look at the PC, and have to tell them, that I have a great product for future protection, but for cleaning, I have to use a different product, because the one I recommend is not that good in cleaning. This causes reactions in their subconscious, starting to doubt if that Comodo suite is really best protection.

Remember, they are not experts, they are average users. Users, that read magazines, full of tests covering the common products, some of them having great cleaning rates. Doesn't that drive them to use a different product, sooner or later, when the doubts in the back of their mind are growing? People are not functioning logical all the time.

Which is leading me to the thought, that Comodo might also offer a specialized cleaning tool that can be run from a Boot CD or a Stick, when for example the PC has to be started in safe mode.

This cleaning engine could then also be incorporated in the regular AV engine.

I am no technical expert, so forgive me my question, but wouldn't it add to the reputation and trust in Comodo if the cleaning capability was as good as other specialized cleaning tools? If it is a separate software, fine, but why not one created by Comodo?

Just my thoughts.

Kind regards
Verilee
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 06:25:56 AM by Verilee »

Offline Melih

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2011, 09:26:00 AM »
This is something that I have experienced differently. I doubt the capabilities of Avira, because, in the past 12 months, I have had about 25 infected systems, all but one running Avira. Avira didn't react, was still running properly after the infection, and a scan gave no results. Most of them had the premium version, btw.

Whatever tool I used to clean, including MSE, Malwarebytes, MWAV and Vipre, each of them cleaned those systems. On some systems I even scanned with all the above mentioned, and also with Avira, just to check detection rating. Avira did not detect a single malware infection, whereas the others detected more or less the same.

This is why I am not convinced of Avira. I don't care about tests, these were real encounters I had. If others have better experiences, fine  :) I am not bashing on products.



I fully agree. Prevention is always better.

What I meant before is just, people who I am talking to are more convinced about certain solutions if they can not only protect, but also clean. See, I come on site, look at the PC, and have to tell them, that I have a great product for future protection, but for cleaning, I have to use a different product, because the one I recommend is not that good in cleaning. This causes reactions in their subconscious, starting to doubt if that Comodo suite is really best protection.

Remember, they are not experts, they are average users. Users, that read magazines, full of tests covering the common products, some of them having great cleaning rates. Doesn't that drive them to use a different product, sooner or later, when the doubts in the back of their mind are growing? People are not functioning logical all the time.

Which is leading me to the thought, that Comodo might also offer a specialized cleaning tool that can be run from a Boot CD or a Stick, when for example the PC has to be started in safe mode.

This cleaning engine could then also be incorporated in the regular AV engine.

I am no technical expert, so forgive me my question, but wouldn't it add to the reputation and trust in Comodo if the cleaning capability was as good as other specialized cleaning tools? If it is a separate software, fine, but why not one created by Comodo?

Just my thoughts.

Kind regards
Verilee

You are spot on Verilee!

We have CCE (Comodo Cleaning Essentials) which we use for cleaning. Also Boot CD version of this will also be available in the near future.

Melih

Offline wiseyu

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Re: Protection vs Cleaning….two very different things!
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2011, 03:18:55 AM »
If I am a ordinary computer user, I need one IS suite. I don't care protection or cleaning. I'm lazy, so I just want A Security Software.

 

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