Author Topic: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....  (Read 157507 times)

Offline clockwork

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2011, 04:54:19 AM »
Ok.
It was in general about what money is "proving" in those contexts. I put that in question. And in relation to real problems.


I dont see things that would justify a "throwing" and tracing.
To make the most out of the least.
"If there is a problem, it`s something interesting. Try to circumvent or fix it.
In the old ages there has been no support. That`s why we got the brain we have today.
Otherwise we would only be able to call a number and listen.
But there wasnt a phone...."

Offline kail

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2011, 05:10:53 AM »
.. It was in general about what money is "proving" in those contexts. I put that in question. And in relation to real problems. ..

I dont see things that would justify a "throwing" and tracing.
To make the most out of the least.
I'm sorry, I don't follow what you mean here.
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Offline clockwork

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2011, 05:39:55 AM »
Shoving piles of money into more tests of tests is a "first world problem". Is the testers-testing company better if it costs 50.000?
(It was in general about what money is "proving" in those contexts. I put that in question. And in relation to real problems.) Just the amount was related to comodos statement, but it could have been any other.

Why won't AV-Comparatives get their tests validated by a credible 3rd party, with this offer? Their current tests are NOT certified and they are choosing to not validate them. Why?
This suggestive "why?" is one example of what i meant with tracing (inserting the suspicion of "something to hide?"). And with throwing i mean, argumentations which have one goal: simply to have the last word.
Conflicts are not solved by having a winner!

To make the most out of the least.
Fly or elephant? :)
"If there is a problem, it`s something interesting. Try to circumvent or fix it.
In the old ages there has been no support. That`s why we got the brain we have today.
Otherwise we would only be able to call a number and listen.
But there wasnt a phone...."

Offline kail

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2011, 06:09:48 AM »
Assuming money = an Audit (ie. Comodo's offer), then this could validate AV-C's testing, processes, documentation, independence, etc.. depending on the scope of that Audit. So, much like a validated ISO accreditation, it would give others confidence that what AV-C says about how they operate and behave is a documented fact. In short, it would prove AV-C's assertions (which is currently all they are).

The "why". As in, why would AV-C not accept the offer of a free audit? As I previously indicated, an ISO accreditation needs an audit anyway, otherwise it is of fairly limited value.. except, possibly, for short-term marketing purposes. Whereas an external audit could be of great value to anybody in throws of ISO compliance work. So, why wouldn't they accept it? I could speculate, but I see little positive value in that currently. It is clear from their responses to-date that AV-C view this offer with a great deal of suspicion and believe that it is some sort of marketing stunt by Comodo. I believe the ill-conceived $50k donation to charity ploy is a clear indication of this and how they currently feel about Comodo.

Fly or elephant? :)
You lost me again.. thankfully. ;D
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Offline clockwork

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2011, 06:23:05 AM »
In some countries people avoid to take money offers from strangers in business.
For me, the reply about the donation was something that i would expect as an answer in that case.



I wish all those who get tested, that their product is good :)
"If there is a problem, it`s something interesting. Try to circumvent or fix it.
In the old ages there has been no support. That`s why we got the brain we have today.
Otherwise we would only be able to call a number and listen.
But there wasnt a phone...."

Offline Melih

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2011, 08:47:48 AM »
AV-Comparative test results are NOT validate nor Audited today.

It won't cost them money to audit as Comodo will pay the auditing costs.

Why don't they want these results to be validated or audited?

Melih

Offline webbie146

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2011, 08:49:43 AM »
I wouldn't put 50K in helping AVC, instead I would use it for developing CIS.
Let AVC clean up there own mess, just my opinion  :)

Offline loveboy_lion

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2011, 10:03:32 AM »
I wouldn't put 50K in helping AVC, instead I would use it for developing CIS.
Let AVC clean up there own mess, just my opinion  :)
+1
i too think instead of comodo spending on auditing spend it on improving Comodo infrastructure and products
its better comodo let the users decide whats good and bad
everyone knows comodo is good and comodo doesnt need any tests to prove it
Comodo has millions of users faith and trust and if it makes those millions of users happy by protecting them more millions of users will surely come
For eg :- avast at start had very few users and now it has more than 100 million users

Offline clockwork

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2011, 05:41:00 AM »
Besides for many years AV Comparatives has been misleading users about the protection capabilities of security products.  AV Comparatives was only doing on demand tests and no dynamic tests, so products like Avira and Eset were always scoring well in the proactive tests and other on demand tests but in real world tests they were not that great.
What? :D

And ..... misleading? If someone does one test, and someone else reads as if this test would be the only truth, then the reader misleads himself. ;)

Btw, comodo has "one version", avira has a free antivirus and a suite. So you cant put just the companies names as description of what you are speaking about.

And why should the antivirus be bad in real world, if it was good in an antivirus test? An antivirus is not bad just because it is just an antivirus, and no hips. Its only not also a hips then. ;)
"If there is a problem, it`s something interesting. Try to circumvent or fix it.
In the old ages there has been no support. That`s why we got the brain we have today.
Otherwise we would only be able to call a number and listen.
But there wasnt a phone...."

Offline Tech

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2011, 05:48:48 AM »
For eg :- avast at start had very few users and now it has more than 100 million users
185 million registered users and 142 million active users (http://www.avast.com/facts).
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Offline Melih

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2011, 07:10:46 AM »
I think it would be unethical for AV-Comparatives to put out any Test Results without auditing/validating them now.

They know they can get it audited/validated at no cost to them, but if they choose to put a test out without validation/auditing, then i believe it will be totally unethical.

Melih

Offline Valentin N

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2011, 07:20:40 AM »
I hope everything goes well.

50 000 is not little, at least in my eyes. I think it would have been better for COMODO to invest that amount money in improving CIS, improve CTM and other application that are essential; we have seen in many tests that CIS is very good and provide the user solid protection and even better, when the user understand and knows how to handle. CTM, for instance, is innovative and few programs are like it. That's where the the investment should go on.

I can understand that certificates are important, which gives good reputation and it shows that's it solid as well as reliable.

COMODO does a great work and has great products that are improving and evolves towards the right way :)

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Offline Jorgosch

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2011, 02:27:17 PM »
I have read through this thread for the first time now and my personal feelings are that Mehli's idea sounded interesting and the first reply by the AV-Comparatives representative sounded positive, but "not quite there yet".

If the process takes time, it takes time. Why would a company like that let itself be goaded into making a Comodo forum their place of choice for discussions about their business? Having the lead programmer of Comodo keep repeating the same questions over and over again takes away a lot of his credibility in my book. It's just not done. Passion is good, but tact is also necessary.

Offline kail

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2011, 02:40:09 PM »
.. Having the lead programmer of Comodo ..
Melih is not a lead programmer at Comodo, he is Comodo's CEO (Chief Executive Officer).

As CEO's go, I find Melih very tactful. :)
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Offline SLE

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Re: Comodo Agrees to pay $50,000 to AV-Comparatives.org.....
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2011, 05:45:12 PM »
[at]melih:
Sorry for jumping in - but hey: Isn't it time to stop this trolling game??

I think it would be unethical for AV-Comparatives to put out any Test Results without auditing/validating them now.

Talking about ethics? Talking about trust? So what...

What about releasing some private mails?
Is this ethical? And do you show all of the story or only the part that fits to your argumentation? Only you know...

What about the released parts of the NDA?
Is this the whole story, or again only the part that fits to your argumentation? Only you know...

We don't know because AV-C have enough moral and don't jumps in your public flaming.

Everybody who understands a little bit knows what the on-demand test is about: reactive signature scanning. Point. So why you took part at all? Nobody said that this test claims to measure whole product efficiency.

The money argument: Look at all the other big testing companies. Why don't you critizise them?

AV-C said that they are in the process of ISO certification. And to do that without sponsoring from single one vendor is good! Very good. So - be patient and please show how generous you are: If they get the ISO certification donate your 50k to "SOS-Kinderdorf".

Any word on that?

 

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