Author Topic: To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam  (Read 6749 times)

Offline marcsayer

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To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« on: July 23, 2013, 10:36:20 PM »
Well I am new to Comodo. Just downloaded/installed it today. Used to use ZA way back at the beginning of this century. Stuck with it until a couple years ago when I just got sick of it's bloated and cumbersome versions, each one worse than the last. And with the way it slowed down my computer. Went to stacked routers and the Windows firewall. Never had any troubles. But times change, and I am running Windows 7 (see a pattern here, I am never on the bleeding edge of any software anymore, got sick of that back in the 90s). So I figured I'd find out what was out there now and what was the best. Consensus seemed to be Comodo, so I installed it. Right off the bat I was impressed. Liked most everything. BUT THEN I clicked on the AntiError shortcut. It gives me some extremely vague warning about some program not being able to restart, the SIDs don't match. But it gives no specifics. Not even what program. It does offer a live online fix button. So I click it. Shuttles me over to Geekbuddy (or whatever that's called). And they want to get me on the phone. Now I don't know didily at this point, other than that my computer has been rock solid for months. No problems of any sort. Nothing in the logs (any of them) other than an occasional failure from a DNS server. All programs and apps running just fine. So I am suspicious right away. And then the Geek guy says, I'll have to buy a subscription before they can help me.

Yes, let that sink in a min. Especially you Melih. A guy downloads your firewall and gets a couple apps forced on him. The apps tell him there is something mysterious wrong with his perfectly functional computer, and if he pays them $x, they will fix it. Sounds a lot like Ransonware to me. Not saying it is, just saying, if that happened to you (or any variation of that with any product or service, not just computer stuff) wouldn't that pretty much be your first reaction? Bring your car in for a free inspection (even though it has been running just fine and is regularly maintenanced) and bingo they find a problem that is going to cost you to fix *and* they won't even tell you what the problem is or where it is. Really now, wouldn't you react EXACTLY the way I did?

I have no idea what the facts are and since I can't get a single bit of info out of your company without paying, I guess I'll just have to muddle on in ignorance. But I was about to buy the Internet Security Pro, until this happened. Now, ... Not so much. I think I'll just use your freebie firewall and see how things go.

I guess what I am saying here is, this looks like one answer to the question you posed to start off this thread. And it also looks like very dodgy marketing, something I've seen you harping on elsewhere on this forum. It certainly turned me off (and everyone I shared this info with, which was about 100 people). And this process can not possibly help your company or your credibility in the long run. Even if it is all just a harmless mistake and confusion, you still need to address it. Customers (especially potentially paying customers)  should not walk away with this taste in their mouth the first day they deal with your stuff. It's bad marketing and bad business. 

That said, so far I like the firewall. As light-footed as the Win 7 firewall and much more robust and featured than the other 3rd party resource drains out there. All in all I would have been singing your praises tonight had this Geekbuddies/AntiError thing not reared its ugly head.

Offline Alan Borer

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To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2013, 07:24:34 AM »
[at] marcsayer
I think you are stupid and ignorant.

Why do you go off shouting your displeasure and ignorance to 100 other people before posting here.

If you do not understand the purpose or reason for the message you got when you click "AntiError shortcut",
then why not simply ask.

I think you could be lying when you say "A guy downloads your firewall and gets a couple apps forced on him."
I never had any such Apps forced on me - Apps were offered and I simply declined.

Offline Alan Borer

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To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2013, 07:25:43 AM »
There is an option now to detect installers that is supposed to let them run unhindered. I should say safe installers.
Many thanks

Regards
Alan

Offline panic

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To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2013, 09:35:08 AM »
[at] marcsayer
I think you are stupid and ignorant.

Why do you go off shouting your displeasure and ignorance to 100 other people before posting here.

If you do not understand the purpose or reason for the message you got when you click "AntiError shortcut",
then why not simply ask.

I think you could be lying when you say "A guy downloads your firewall and gets a couple apps forced on him."
I never had any such Apps forced on me - Apps were offered and I simply declined.


[at] Alan Borer, your post is under moderator review. We strongly encourage you to revisit the forums T&C, paying close attention to the parts about showing respect to other forum members.

[at] marcsayer, apologies for the tone and content of the reply to your post. It is under mod review. Comodo welcomes all opinions and comments, even negative ones.

Ewen :-(
As your mums would say, "If you can't play nice with all the other kiddies, go home".
All users are asked to please read and abide by the  Comodo Forum Policy.
If you can't conform, don't use the forum.

Offline Dch48

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To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2013, 10:19:03 AM »
[at] marcsayer
I think you are stupid and ignorant.

Why do you go off shouting your displeasure and ignorance to 100 other people before posting here.

If you do not understand the purpose or reason for the message you got when you click "AntiError shortcut",
then why not simply ask.

I think you could be lying when you say "A guy downloads your firewall and gets a couple apps forced on him."
I never had any such Apps forced on me - Apps were offered and I simply declined.

That's pretty harsh. It is easy to not see the option to customize the installation and not have GeekBuddy at all. I would suspect that most new users wind up with both Dragon and GeekBuddy without knowing where they came from.  What the issue about "AntiError shortcut" is about I have no idea since I've never seen it.
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Offline Alan Borer

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To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2013, 11:34:39 AM »
That's pretty harsh. It is easy to not see the option to customize the installation and not have GeekBuddy at all. I would suspect that most new users wind up with both Dragon and GeekBuddy without knowing where they came from.  What the issue about "AntiError shortcut" is about I have no idea since I've never seen it.
I am sorry that you consider it harsh.

I consider it forgiveable to be ignorant of the meaning or reason for "AntiError shortcut".
I am as ignorant as MarcSayer and also apparently yourself.

I find it inexcusable to slander/libel the Comodo product to 100 people who may well spread it further,
without first asking for free advice on this forum about this issue.

I accept that it may be possible to overlook the options to omit Geek Buddy and Dragon,
but I think that it is a common experience with a lot of freeware that there may be extra browsers / addons / toolbars etc.
and although an accidental failure to deselect options may be an irritation,
it should be recognised that the capability probably existed,
and that it is an exaggeration to say
"A guy downloads your firewall and gets a couple apps forced on him."

This also is a false statement
" I can't get a single bit of info out of your company without paying,"
He can get free information from this forum.
I have also been able to raise support tickets for free support from
https://support.comodo.com/index.php?loginresult=1&group=comodo

Regards
Alan

Offline Dch48

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To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2013, 12:06:54 PM »
Alan, I agree with some of your points but it's the first line of your original post that is far too harsh and frankly unacceptable.
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Offline marcsayer

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To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2013, 03:14:03 PM »
marcsayer, apologies for the tone and content of the reply to your post. It is under mod review. Comodo welcomes all opinions and comments, even negative ones.

Ewen :-(

No sweat, you see this sort of thing all the time online. People who would never dare be so rude in person, are often unbelievably rude online. It's the darkside of the impersonal, long distance, anonymous nature of the net.

To be clear I was not/am not unhappy with Comodo or Dragon (I have posted in other topics with some issues but nothing serious). Nor was I badmouthing the company or the product(s). I shared my experience with some online firends so that they would benefit from it. That is by no means a done deal, and I did not complain about Comodo or Dragon, just the add-on program GeekBuddy. I can always update them down the road. Sharing that sort of experience is perfectly valid in my eyes. If for no other reason than it will tell others not to install Geekbuddy. Just as sharing here is perfectly valid as it helps the company see through the eyes of its customers and better understand how what they are doing affects their customers, their sales, and the image.

As to my post here; I was trying to show how people can/will respond to the particular issue I raised. And I *do* believe there is a problem buried in that issue.  Yes I could (and did) come here eventually. But how many people will? How many people will simply respond from their emotions (like Alan has so kindly shown us, this is not at all uncommon, even when someone has no horse in the race) and simply walk away, and/or badmouth the product/company/person, based simply on the experience they had when first using a product? I am not some newbie. OTOH I am also not a computer expert. I have been building and maintaining my own computers since the late 80s. I built and sold computers to several businesses back in the early 90s, including a network of 4 PCs for a Doctor (that was actually a big deal at the time). I have had a home network since the mid 90s. I currently have a home network of 6 computers and/or tablets. I am not trying to sound important or brag, just give you an idea that I am not the lowest common denominator type. I am above average for home computer users. If I came away with what I did, you can be sure that is not all that uncommon.

I installed the program the way any normal user would. Was I given choices to not install stuff? Yep. But given that I do not know the product and therefore do not know what the ramifications are of not installing certain things, I opted to trust that if offered with the product and by the same company, it was needed or beneficial. The AntiError link just appeared on my desktop, I was never asked about it. It is apparently part of Geekbuddy. Again, from a marketing perspective, with new customers in mind, this does seem rather sketchy, especially in light of how AntiError behaved the first time I used it. And I can't be the only one who has had this reaction. Maybe I am just the first one to bother taking it any further.

From a marketing perspective, if you want to bundle Geekbuddy with Comodo, you should offer a free trial period with Geekbuddy. Then not only will the product get installed, but the customer will have the opportunity to actually try it. As it is now, the product gets installed, and the first time you go to use it, they tell you you have to buy a subscription or they can't help you. That's bad marketing. And it is made even worse if they come to Geekbuddy through AntiError as I did, because AntiError gives you this vague error message with no verifiable info and no options for finding out about or fixing the error, other than driving you to Geekbuddy who then will not answer any questions without you buying the subscription. That is even worse marketing. And faced with that scenario, a goodly number of people are going to react as I did, or worse. But many of them will simply find an alternative product and leave Comodo entirely, or will keep the freebie but not upgrade to the pay version, and will have a bad taste in their mouths.

All I was doing with my post was trying to point this out. I believe you really do need to rethink how the whole Geekbuddy/AntiError thing is handled and how your people at Geekbuddy respond to the situation. Had the guy offered to help me with this, even if just to tell me what program the message referred to (or have Antierror do that), and also explain that Geekbuddy is a subscription service and would I like to try it? I would have reacted very differently. It was the way this was handled as much as anything, that made it feel like a scam.

This really is intended to be helpful criticism. I am way too busy to waste my time just ragging on people or companies for no useful reason. OTOH sometimes the best way to reach someone is to share the emotional aspects of an experience, which is what I have tried to do here along with the data.  
Mod edit: Fixed the quote tags, Captainsticks.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 08:14:04 PM by captainsticks »

Offline Alan Borer

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To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2013, 03:30:34 PM »
Alan, I agree with some of your points but it's the first line of your original post that is far too harsh and frankly unacceptable.
I am sorry, I accept that it was harsh to say "Stupid",
but I could not and still cannot understand why a vague error with "AntiError shortcut" caused him so much aggravation that he informed 100 people of his perceived grievances and then had a long rant in this topic,
but nowhere does he seem to have asked in this forum about the cause.
That makes no sense to me.

As I have already said, I was also in ignorance,
but instead of complaining to 100 people and writing a long rant,
I took less than 1 minute to cure my ignorance with a search query that gave me
https://help.comodo.com/topic-86-1-416-4622-starting-and-using-antierror.html
which suggests a simple warning that the computer operation may be degraded by too many startups.

Regards
Alan

Offline marcsayer

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To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2013, 03:48:40 PM »
Sigh...to be clear, the error was not with AntiError. The error was reported by AntiError. The error message indicated that "one" of my programs could not restart because the SIDs did not match. It did not identify which program, nor did it offer any solutions or avenues of inquiry other than live online help (which turned out to be Geekbuddy though it did not make that clear either). And just like the info in the link you provided, no where did it make it clear that Geekbuddy or the live online help was fee based. Only after I had wasted time following the path to Geekbuddy and wasted time with a Geekbuddy tech did I find out that I had been pushed into a fee based help system. And that pretty much makes it clear why this was so frustrating and aggravating. If Alan or anyone else doesn't get it at this point, all I can say is "whatever" and get on with life.

A program I didn't ask for tells me there's some mysterious problem with my computer (which was and is working just fine) and pushes me to a pay service in order to get any useful info at all about the problem. That pay service won't tell me anything until after I pay. If that doesn't seem fishy or sound like a scam or at least bad marketing, so be it.

Allan, if you can't understand all this (and I do believe you when you say that, trust me), that's pretty much your problem. Your lack of comprehension is neither my concern or my fault.

Offline Alan Borer

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To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2013, 03:54:34 PM »
As it is now, the product gets installed, and the first time you go to use it, they tell you you have to buy a subscription or they can't help you. That's bad marketing. And it is made even worse if they come to Geekbuddy through AntiError as I did, because AntiError gives you this vague error message with no verifiable info and no options for finding out about or fixing the error, other than driving you to Geekbuddy who then will not answer any questions without you buying the subscription. That is even worse marketing.
For that you have my sympathy.
I am sure that GeekBuddy provided a short term of free trial when this was first launched.
Either that has changed or your geekbuddy misled you.

Regards
Alan

Offline marcsayer

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To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2013, 04:57:14 PM »
For that you have my sympathy.
I am sure that GeekBuddy provided a short term of free trial when this was first launched.
Either that has changed or your geekbuddy misled you.

Regards
Alan


Thanks Alan. And I do apologize if we got off on the wrong foot.

Sadly that is exactly what happened, and why I was posting here. If there was a free trial, it is either discontinued, or my buddy didn't want to offer it. I specifically asked him if the only way to find out about this error report was by purchasing a subscription to Geekbuddy, and he confirmed that. Offered absolutely no other options, no trial periods, no other avenues to find out what the mysterious error was. In light of how I got to them, it did seem like a variant on ransomware in a sense. Had AntiError at least identified the program so I could see for myself if there even was a problem, had they offered a free trial, had Geekbuddy offered to at least tell me what program the error message referred to, in fact, had almost anything happened other than a demand to buy a subscription for some unknown error, I might have reacted very differently. And that's my point here. Customers are going to react the way I did, though they may never make it here to voice their concerns/feelings. I do believe that as it stands now, this does more harm to Comodo than they realize. I am used to dealing with computers and software. I don't generally react badly to basic flaws, problems or idiosyncrasies in software and installations. To the uniformed (the new or potential customer, the one you need to make a good impression on), this will feel like a scam, which is not to say it is. 

Offline Alan Borer

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To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2013, 05:11:33 PM »
Thanks for understanding.

I must agree it is difficult to distinguish between ransom-ware and that which you experienced.

Regards
Alan

Offline Chiron

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Re: To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2013, 05:14:32 PM »
I hope nobody minds, but as this comment appears directed more towards GeekBuddy, I have split these posts and moved it to a more appropriate part of the forum.

Please let me know if you believe that this move was in error.

Thanks.

Offline marcsayer

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Re: To Many Users AntiError May Resemble a Scam
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2013, 05:24:21 PM »
I hope nobody minds, but as this comment appears directed more towards GeekBuddy, I have split these posts and moved it to a more appropriate part of the forum.

Please let me know if you believe that this move was in error.

Thanks.

I am fine with that as long as the point doesn't get lost that this relates specifically to how a user installing Comodo for the first time, will be affected. If I had gone looking for a service like Geekbuddy and been installing Geekbuddy specifically, this would have been a non-issue. The problem is how it gets installed with Comodo, and how things progressed from that point.

 

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