Author Topic: will time machine make imaging sw needless?  (Read 46399 times)

Offline abr

  • Comodo Loves me
  • ****
  • Posts: 160
will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« on: July 10, 2009, 09:33:18 PM »
This sounds interesting. However, will it be able to make images while the OS is running & able to restore older snapshots on next reboot, from disk? If so, it could easily replace imaging software.

Offline J2897

  • Comodo's Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 332
  • Limted User Account Enforcer
    • YouTube Channel
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 02:03:56 AM »
I don't think it needs to take Full Images; like Imaging Software.

I think it does it incrementally: So it takes a Snapshot (small Image) of everything that has changed since the previous Snapshot. (Which makes it much faster, and uses less Disk Space.)

But yes, it will replace imaging software. ;)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 12:41:06 AM by J2045 »

Offline pipistrello

  • Comodo Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 02:08:38 PM »
I think you will still need a complete image backup for recovery in the event of corruption due to software crashes, disk failure, etc., as an incremental scheme is unlikely to be effective at such times.

In most circumstances, however, I would expect Time Machine to be sufficient and more convenient providing it can achieve a low overhead without introducing excessive latency. I'll surely be giving it a spin.

Just my thoughts.

Offline J2897

  • Comodo's Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 332
  • Limted User Account Enforcer
    • YouTube Channel
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2009, 12:36:34 AM »
I think you will still need a complete image backup for recovery...

Especially while its in Beta'.  :-TU

Offline puddingpants

  • Comodo Family Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 90
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 11:53:52 AM »
I've heard, on other forum topics, that Comodo Time Machine won't support a "rescue disk" (bootable CD, DVD, etc.) that lets you restore from an image even if Windows will no longer boot.

In the REAL, serious emergencies, where you need a system restore the MOST, Windows won't be bootable or runnable (e.g. malware or something else has seriously corrupted Windows).  In that case, your CTM images will be unusable for recovery?  Seriously?  I can't restore from an image unless I can get into Windows to do so?  I won't bother using CTM if this is the case.

Why the heck would you design an imaging product that's Acronis/Ghost-like, EXCEPT for the fact that it can ONLY restore images from within Windows?  That kills most of the product's appeal, particularly for situations where it's MOST needed!  CTM's namesake, Apple's Time Machine, allows "bare metal" restores via a rescue disk (and who'd bother using it, if it didn't?)

Somebody said "Comodo Backup" version 2 will support a rescue disk recovery, but... why would you put rescue disk recovery support in a file-based backup product, and NOT put it into your IMAGE-BASED backup product?  That makes absolutely no sense, and seems totally backwards.

Anybody have any details on this?

« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 12:03:17 PM by puddingpants »

Offline J2897

  • Comodo's Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 332
  • Limted User Account Enforcer
    • YouTube Channel
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 12:42:19 PM »
It's not an 'Imaging Product'. It creates Snapshots like Windows 'System Restore', only better (more reliable). Though your 'Imaging Product' should still work OK if you have one. If not, the Comodo Backup v2 Beta is being Tested. That will be Free when it is ready, and it will create 'Images'.

I've heard, on other forum topics, that Comodo Time Machine won't support a "rescue disk" (bootable CD, DVD, etc.) that lets you restore from an image even if Windows will no longer boot.

I personally believe that its physically impossible for any Program (including 'Comodo Time Machine'), to prevent a Rescue Disk from being Created, and Restored to the same Drive when needed.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 12:55:43 PM by J2897 »

Offline puddingpants

  • Comodo Family Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 90
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 01:11:19 PM »
Here's what I'm talking about, in a nutshell:

Without a bootable rescue disk, you get these two scenarios:

Situation A:
1. You make snapshot with CTM.
2. Malware screws up some things, but Windows itself still works.
3. You run CTM from within Windows, and restore to the snapshot.
4. Problem solved.

Situation B:
1. You make snapshot with CTM.
2. Malware screws up Windows so badly that Windows won't even boot anymore.
3. You have no way to run a CTM restore, because you can't get into Windows.
4. You're out of luck.

With a bootable rescue disk, situation A remains the same, but for situation B you'd now have this:

Situation B:
1. You make snapshot with CTM.
2. Malware screws up Windows so badly that Windows won't even boot anymore.
3. You insert your bootable CTM rescue disk and restart the machine.  Not using the hard drive at all, the machine boots directly from the rescue disk into a special CTM recovery environment that runs on the "bare metal" of the machine.
4. You restore to the snapshot.
5. Problem solved.

Therefore, if CTM isn't a real imager, and/or does not support creating a bootable rescue disk for you that contains a "bare metal" CTM recovery program, then CTM will be of limited usefulness.

It will only be useful in Situation A, not in the more serious Situation B.

Apple's Time Machine supports Situation A and B, because it does support doing a recovery from a rescue disk running on the "bare metal".

So am I going to have to use CTM and Comodo Backup, both?  CTM for fixing stuff when Windows still runs, and CB for situations where Windows won't run anymore?  Isn't that a big pain in the butt, to run two products and manage two sets of backups, just to cover both Situation A and B?

« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 01:33:31 PM by puddingpants »

Offline J2897

  • Comodo's Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 332
  • Limted User Account Enforcer
    • YouTube Channel
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 02:29:13 PM »
So am I going to have to use CTM and Comodo Backup, both?  CTM for fixing stuff when Windows still runs, and CB for situations where Windows won't run anymore?  Isn't that a big pain in the butt, to run two products and manage two sets of backups, just to cover both Situation A and B?

No. Comodo Backup v2 will cover both Situation A and B.

Offline puddingpants

  • Comodo Family Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 90
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2009, 02:48:26 PM »
No. Comodo Backup v2 will cover both Situation A and B.
Oh, okay.  So what's CTM for, then?  What does it do that CB2 doesn't?

Thanks for the information by the way, it's very helpful and I appreciate it.


Offline J2897

  • Comodo's Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 332
  • Limted User Account Enforcer
    • YouTube Channel
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2009, 03:07:52 PM »
Oh, okay.  So what's CTM for, then?  What does it do that CB2 doesn't?

You should browse around the Forum's and have a look.

Basically, CTM is a lot more convenient than 'Imaging Software'.

Comodo Backup is for Backing-up. Not just creating 'Images', but all kinds of different ways to Backup different kinds of Data.

'This' is what I use Comodo Backup v1 for. Different people will use it in different ways. (Note that v1 doesn't create 'Images'.)

To be honest, once CTM is ready, I will be using it instead of Returnil to Sandbox my System Partition. I'm hoping that I can use it like Returnil too; 'Drop Changes' on Exit/Shutdown.

Offline brihy1

  • Comodo Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2009, 06:25:02 AM »
your situation b without a bootable disk,if ctm is anything like rollback rx you will not be out of luck because rollback and hopefully ctm boot before windows and give you ythe option to return your system to an earlier state.i use rollback now and if i cant boot to windows i can restore before loading to windows,hopefully ctm is something like rollback.
Here's what I'm talking about, in a nutshell:

Without a bootable rescue disk, you get these two scenarios:

Situation A:
1. You make snapshot with CTM.
2. Malware screws up some things, but Windows itself still works.
3. You run CTM from within Windows, and restore to the snapshot.
4. Problem solved.

Situation B:
1. You make snapshot with CTM.
2. Malware screws up Windows so badly that Windows won't even boot anymore.
3. You have no way to run a CTM restore, because you can't get into Windows.
4. You're out of luck.

With a bootable rescue disk, situation A remains the same, but for situation B you'd now have this:

Situation B:
1. You make snapshot with CTM.
2. Malware screws up Windows so badly that Windows won't even boot anymore.
3. You insert your bootable CTM rescue disk and restart the machine.  Not using the hard drive at all, the machine boots directly from the rescue disk into a special CTM recovery environment that runs on the "bare metal" of the machine.
4. You restore to the snapshot.
5. Problem solved.

Therefore, if CTM isn't a real imager, and/or does not support creating a bootable rescue disk for you that contains a "bare metal" CTM recovery program, then CTM will be of limited usefulness.

It will only be useful in Situation A, not in the more serious Situation B.

Apple's Time Machine supports Situation A and B, because it does support doing a recovery from a rescue disk running on the "bare metal".

So am I going to have to use CTM and Comodo Backup, both?  CTM for fixing stuff when Windows still runs, and CB for situations where Windows won't run anymore?  Isn't that a big pain in the butt, to run two products and manage two sets of backups, just to cover both Situation A and B?



Offline Kyle

  • Computer Security Testing Group
  • Comodo's Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3679
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2009, 09:11:21 PM »
Hey Guys, I've been one of the lucky ones to be able to do some testing on CTM, I'll ease some of your minds as I had the same fears about how effective CTM would be.

"Deep malware infection - Can't boot up malware so Time machine is useless?"
Wrong!  ;D
During bootup, Just after BIOS (before windows) A new screen of CTM gives you the opertunity to enter the time machine console.  From there you can do various things with CTM including restoring a snapshot.

Hope that stops your worries :)
Don't worry, be happy ????

*No longer active*

Offline brihy1

  • Comodo Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2009, 12:07:51 AM »
same as rollback rx which i use on one of my pc's and a very good product,look foward to testing out ctm when it becomes available.

Offline eXPerience

  • Left the Forums
  • Comodo's Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6958
  • Free Forever !
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2009, 03:51:37 AM »
Hi guys,

AFAIK CTM does a full image (base image) in the beginning, then it starts to use incremental images. This way, it isn't using so much diskspace and still all files will be protected.

Please note that I've not completely tested CTM yet and that I have little to no knowledge about it, so I can be wrong ;)

eXPerience

Offline LaserWraith

  • pillow fighting fool
  • Usability Study Member
  • Comodo's Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4590
  • I'm going to go out with a bang
Re: will time machine make imaging sw needless?
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2009, 10:57:29 AM »
What?  Are some people getting to test CTM!

 >:(

Umm...is this a public beta or only "the special people" beta? 88)

 

Free Endpoint Protection
Seo4Smf 2.0 © SmfMod.Com Smf Destek