Poll

Should dragon be pursued?

Yes
17 (70.8%)
No
6 (25%)
Other options (state in comment)
1 (4.2%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Author Topic: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued  (Read 9967 times)

Offline spainach_12

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On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« on: March 17, 2011, 02:55:32 AM »
Comodo dragon was a rising star in the making when comodo first introduced it. It was a time when Google was having privacy issues concerning its innovative product. However, comodo dragon has its own issues which will be discussed in the next few paragraphs.

To begin with, and apparently the most clamored for, is the updating of Dragon. Chrome and chromium are developing too fast, making major revisions to their product. (Suspicions that these supposed major changes are in fact merely minor changes have aroused. However, there is hardly any proof for this claim and until it has not been presented with enough information and sources to back it up, it shall remain as it is: a suspicion, and somewhat libelous at that.) Dragon, I believe, cannot keep up with Chrome/Chromium for the following reasons:
(1) Comodo's main products are its internet security suite and certificates (correct me if i'm wrong). Priority is and should be given to these rather than dragon.
(2) Google will develop its products surprisingly fast because of its huge workforce and resources (which include funds). It's not surprising and very much understandable if comodo cannot keep up with google who makes leaps look like normal steps.
(3) Dragon seems rather redundant with the pre-existence of similar, although not altogether the same, products which include Iron, ChromePlus, Chromium itself, Flock and others which makes Dragon look a bit unnecessary.

Updating a software in itself is a form of security maintenance. If comodo cannot keep up with the updates, it seems to be a deviation to what comodo stands for and that is end-user security. It doesn't do any good to its name and reputation. Having been left behind by two versions (as of now) is not something to be neglected. Unless otherwise proven that google had indeed been conning people (highly doubtful seeing the performance boost), Dragon ought to be kept up-to-date if it were to ever maintain its being a security-inclined product. (For the sake of argument, supposing that those major changes were indeed merely minor, changes are changes and these accumulate over time. Anything minor may become something more for specific systems. Relegating the minority to the background is fine; completely ignoring them is another matter, but that is philosophy and ethics.)

Another thing to consider about Dragon is as mentioned above, it is not the main product of Comodo to which priority should be justly given to and not to Dragon. Comodo is better off developing other products than Dragon. Considering this, Dragon would seem more like a block of stone on the back of Comodo, giving more burden than anything good with all the clamors and development needed to be done.

One more issue that Dragon seems to face are memory leaks. Dragon (installed) consumes a lot of memory in my system and has been the problem of eight other colleagues I've asked to test it with. In thirty minutes of three tabs running, Dragon can sometimes consume as much as a total of a hundred thousand and more KB worth of memory. The newest version, I've heard, leaks handles. There are possibly more, but I shall not delve onto them any further as I lack the technical know-how to write about them.

On the other hand, Dragon gives a new flavor to the browser and presents security-inclined features which should benefit security-conscious people. I will list only those that are new to dragon and not existent in any other versions of chromium. For one, a code on the verification engine of comodo has been included in Dragon, giving it access to an "advanced domain validation technology". Also, Dragon uses Comodo's installer and update mechanism whereas Chrome updates via Google Updater, which has privacy issues of its own. This updater had been removed.

Some members claim that Dragon's code has its personal edits and is a code completely different from Chrome. I have nothing much to say to this as this is not something I specialize on and such "personal edits" are hardly noticeable to the common eye. What i can say, however, is that panic and Melih have hinted on something of a grand feature or some use for Dragon that is yet to come. What it is or whether it has already been incorporated I cannot be so sure. The post is very old and I've read none so far that addresses this. However, it does seem promising and may be an innovation waiting to be released. (see http://forums.comodo.com/beta-corner-cd/comodo-dragon-alpha-ver-09016-is-now-available-for-download-t47764.0.html)

Personally, i find it better perhaps to have comodo develop an extension instead, rather than the browser itself. Hence, "sharing" its security features to all other browsers and making them available to those who are unwilling to give up the things they've gotten used to (take my brother and parents for example). Plus, the possibility of it being added to CIS not only relegates itself to a position where it shall garner attention and consequently, improve at a much faster pace, but also presents an opportunity to develop its main security product and enhance Chromium which is what Dragon stands for.

Whether or not Dragon should be continued is not for me to decide. It is yours, and the staff's discretion. Judge wisely and do defend your stand.

 !ot! Your opinions are welcome, but do be careful in your choice of words. Your right to free press doesn't give you the right to limit others or to offend them. I discourage all forms of flaming in this post. If offense is taken, use the personal messaging feature and not this thread. Be professional.
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Offline panic

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2011, 05:42:11 AM »
Dragon should definitely be continued.

From a users perspective, a browser is a users gateway OUT to the internet.

From a security perspective, a browser is malwares gateway IN to your system.

Browsers are becoming a more and more central application and therefore are becoming a higher priority entry vector. The more browsers get used, the greater measures of security needs to be implemented.

It's not just what YOU use it for, it is also what OTHERS try to use it for.

Ewen :-)

P.S> I don't care about the version as much as I care about the security.
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Offline captainsticks

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2011, 08:17:35 AM »
Hi. Spainach. While I do see reason to your opinions . I still think CD should continue because besides your security (antimalware) program and maybe the OS, your browser is a very important item as far as internet security is concerned. Imo opinion not all browser updates are security related, and also a security issue present in chrome may not be present in CD in every instance. With all the privacy etc issues that are removed already from CD, could very easily result in less security updates required. Most other browsers do not update as regular as chrome, but they are still able to hold high security levels. A browser with a high number of privacy and security issues will most likely update more regulary trying to combat these. What I am trying to say is program with less updates doesn't really mean it is less secure. The number of browsers that implement the use of chromium is still fairly small compared to the number that use other sources, so I don't think it is redundant but more an additional choice. Also as far as performance issues, this will be a debate forever amongst them all. Kind regards.
Edit-Typo
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 08:20:08 AM by captainsticks »
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Offline HeffeD

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2011, 10:17:07 AM »
I personally don't mind the fact that Dragon is lagging a bit behind the Chromium releases.

I'm sure if there was a major vulnerability discovered and patched in the core Chromium source code, Comodo would make it a priority to update Dragon quickly to fix the hole.

Offline megamanx

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2011, 12:06:46 PM »
Instead of typing so much, I will just put it simple.

Use the program that you want, but only pay attention to that selected program's updates, ignore the other program's update.

Besides, panic, captainsticks, and HeffeD said all that is necessary. :)

Offline spainach_12

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2011, 11:57:38 PM »
From a users perspective, a browser is a users gateway OUT to the internet.

From a security perspective, a browser is malwares gateway IN to your system.

Browsers are becoming a more and more central application and therefore are becoming a higher priority entry vector. The more browsers get used, the greater measures of security needs to be implemented.


Exactly my thoughts. Which is why I think maybe an extension would be a good idea.

With all the privacy etc issues that are removed already from CD, could very easily result in less security updates required. Most other browsers do not update as regular as chrome, but they are still able to hold high security levels. A browser with a high number of privacy and security issues will most likely update more regulary trying to combat these. What I am trying to say is program with less updates doesn't really mean it is less secure. The number of browsers that implement the use of chromium is still fairly small compared to the number that use other sources, so I don't think it is redundant but more an additional choice. Also as far as performance issues, this will be a debate forever amongst them all. Kind regards.



I see your point. I did mention about the "personal edits" that the staff had made. However, it may be a good idea for them to explain these things in a bit more clearer manner. Be more specific, I mean. "Enhanced security over Chrome" seems a bit too vague for a description, don't you think? Just to clarify things up.

Over the concern of performance issues, I do believe that it would be better to provide security without hampering productivity. Speed matters after all. Think of it this way, you would say that it is better to take things slower than the rest, as long as I'm safe. But don't you think it's better to be as fast as everyone else, while being safe? Security wasn't and still isn't for some the foremost priority of others. Productivity is always a goal. Every few seconds still stack up.

Use the program that you want, but only pay attention to that selected program's updates, ignore the other program's update.

Ah, yes. You have a point in that. However, I stand by what I said and that is Comodo should put more priority over their main products rather than Dragon...at least for now. And it is always good to compare. It gives you, well at least in my case, motivation to do better.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 11:59:57 PM by spainach_12 »
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Offline goodjohn1984

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2011, 02:53:15 PM »
Thank you for sharing that. :)

I was glad that Comodo made Dragon at first, and I still think there is hope for it, but...

So far it has been the ugliest, least compatible, slowest (in the last version), and buggiest (in the last version, but not the others), most out-of-date (slowest development), quietest user forum, for a Chromium browser that I have tested in my opinion :D ; I am not saying it is the worst browser or anything, this sentence seems more negative than it really is, so I hope that I am not misunderstood & I am not trying to bad mouth Comodo Dragon. ;)

Right now it only wins in Privacy compared to Google Chrome in my opinion at this time, but Comodo Dragon is a young product, and has a lot of potential to grow/improve in time, in my opinion; and I do hope it does. :)

I try to keep an eye on its development, but so far things are not going as good as I would have hoped. :(
 
 !ot!

Same with Comodo Program Manager, Comodo System Cleaner, Comodo SiteInspector, Comodo DNS, CIMA, and the lack of automatic responses e-mail responses or responses at all from the Web Submit Sample Form (among other places) (though some parts of the forum are active, mostly the CIS section, among others).

But I am glad that Comodo is offering these products (especially for free), I like that Comodo is trying to mix things up, I like the setup of the Comodo forums (though it would be nice to have more volunteer moderates brought in, because some forms are very quiet like the Comodo DNS forum), and more.

Regardless, I still enjoy watching and trying to do what I can to help the Comodo Community and Team, in the fight against malware & hackers; but I do hope for improvement in many areas, and hope that we can be part of the improvement process. :)



« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 07:19:27 PM by goodjohnjr »

Offline captainsticks

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2011, 05:25:24 PM »


So far it has been the ugliest, least compatible, slowest (in the last version), and buggiest (in the last version, but not the others), most out-of-date (slowest development), quietest user forum, for a Chromium browser that I have tested.
 and hope that we can be part of the improvement process. :)




Hi goodjohnjr. I do agree CD forum is lacking support, and I also hope we can all be part of improving this along with the product itself.
Your comments about the last version is that for the last stable V9 or the last beta V10?
From the lack of interest on the CD forum it is clear that it is just not getting enough people interested (sad).
It just needs a little something to liven it up, but what? Thanks
To everyone please help CD http://forums.comodo.com/news-announcements-feedback-cd/lack-of-interest-please-add-ideas-to-help-make-it-popular-t71029.0.html
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Offline goodjohn1984

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2011, 07:32:41 PM »
Hi goodjohnjr. I do agree CD forum is lacking support, and I also hope we can all be part of improving this along with the product itself.
Your comments about the last version is that for the last stable V9 or the last beta V10?
From the lack of interest on the CD forum it is clear that it is just not getting enough people interested (sad).
It just needs a little something to liven it up, but what? Thanks
To everyone please help CD http://forums.comodo.com/news-announcements-feedback-cd/lack-of-interest-please-add-ideas-to-help-make-it-popular-t71029.0.html


Thank you for responding. :)

No, it was the Stable Version of CD 8 and the Beta for Version CD 9, I think, but I could be wrong. :D

Here are some things that I suggest:

I think an improved product website for CD with more details, screenshots, videos, FAQ, Privacy Policy/Terms Of Use/etc would be a good start.

Change the CD theme to the default Chromium theme modified with the Comodo Logo.

Follow the Chromium development and keep up-to-date, simply removing and/or adjusting parts of the code to increase privacy & security.

Get several Volunteer Moderators that will be able to respond often to threads in the CD Forum and be able to help and/or pass the questions/problems on to people that can answer them and/or fix the problem.

Use free advertising options like YouTube/Dailymotion/Facebook/Myspace/WordPress/Wikipedia/etc.

Maybe join up/fuse with another Chromium browser team such as the ChromePlus Team or SrWareIron Team/etc.

Add CD as an optional install option with some Comodo products and/or other free and/or open source programs/products/software.

Maybe integrate Comodo SiteInspector and/or CIMA into CD.

That is all I can think up for now, my old eyes hurt. :D






Offline wiseyu

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2011, 07:59:22 PM »
CD has not its special features. Just say more safe than Chrome. What's that?

Offline captainsticks

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2011, 08:16:09 PM »
Just say more safe than Chrome. What's that?

Hi Wiseyu. This link might fill in the gaps about the differences. Kind regards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comodo_Dragon_%28web_browser%29
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Offline wiseyu

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2011, 08:58:42 PM »
Hi Wiseyu. This link might fill in the gaps about the differences. Kind regards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comodo_Dragon_%28web_browser%29
Thanks. I have read it. Still no features looks to me. But thank you for your reply.

Offline JV

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2011, 09:28:20 PM »
There is quite a difference between Chrome 9 & 10. After having tried ver. 10, I wouldn't want to go back to ver. 9. So effectively that means I won't be using Dragon 9 at all.

Perhaps it is time for a rethink about the future of Dragon. Personally I would rather see Comodo bring the password manager to life again  :) That was one of my favourite Comodo programmes.

Offline trscsaeg

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2011, 04:13:53 AM »
i'm sure comodo doesn't rely on whatever version of chromium they use to address security holes. whatever version of chromium they are building on at the time, i'm sure they look for security risk and fix what they find. i don't think they just build off chromium and say we can't address any security issues in this version until we build off of a newer version of chromium. chromium is open source which means it can be modified and that means that google isn't the only one that can fix security issues in chromium. correct me if i'm wrong about comodo being able to fix security issues they find in whatever version of chromium they're building off of.

Offline spainach_12

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Re: On the question of whether or not Dragon should be pursued
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2011, 01:57:47 AM »
i'm sure comodo doesn't rely on whatever version of chromium they use to address security holes. whatever version of chromium they are building on at the time, i'm sure they look for security risk and fix what they find. i don't think they just build off chromium and say we can't address any security issues in this version until we build off of a newer version of chromium. chromium is open source which means it can be modified and that means that google isn't the only one that can fix security issues in chromium. correct me if i'm wrong about comodo being able to fix security issues they find in whatever version of chromium they're building off of.
While I undoubtedly have to agree on your statement that comodo can indeed fix security issues, i just feel that browsers' speed and stability are what they are famed for. Their importance is obvious. Security-wise, yes, I do feel safe using comodo's dragon, but performance-wise, not so much. Apparently, they too can miss out on some of the improvements made by the Google team (for example was in version 4 when Dragon ate up more than a 110, 000 KB of RAM usage on a 223 MB-RAM pc running only on one tab. This was an issue fixed by the Google team on what version I could not remember since I wasn't keeping track until that incident). It's always good to know that your keeping your pace with all the others don't you think?

I think that it is better perhaps for comodo to prioritize their main products that first attracted us here and that is the security suite and/or the like. An extension perhaps would be more viable as a project than the actual browser itself. Chromium is believed to hardly have any vulnerabilities, like in one magazine where i read that a hacker (as they were referred to) had commented that though he knew the vulnerabilities, you just can't find a way to exploit them.

What I'm trying to say is, just do what you do best. extend only after your done with the first.
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