Author Topic: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?  (Read 143574 times)

Offline haroldpa

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2010, 04:19:28 PM »
Hello Milih,
 I have to whole heartedly agree with your words of personally describing 99.9% of all (if not 100%) 'PC Security Programs failure to keep our computers "Clean!"
 Since computer owners from all over the globe spend 'massive millions of dollars each year, with usually at least two security programs per PC.' One can only surmise that, 'we humans love having our security blanket.'
 Oh yeah, one more thing; "The more Security Programs cost... well... the better they have to be... right?!"
                                Have a great day,
                                           Harold... 

Offline Melih

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2010, 07:55:03 PM »
Hello Milih,
 I have to whole heartedly agree with your words of personally describing 99.9% of all (if not 100%) 'PC Security Programs failure to keep our computers "Clean!"
 Since computer owners from all over the globe spend 'massive millions of dollars each year, with usually at least two security programs per PC.' One can only surmise that, 'we humans love having our security blanket.'
 Oh yeah, one more thing; "The more Security Programs cost... well... the better they have to be... right?!"
                                Have a great day,
                                           Harold... 

Antivirus industry the only industry I know of, where there is a, so called, solution to the problem that people pay Billions of $$ for every year, yet the problem is getting bigger!!!

Melih

Offline Chiron

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2010, 05:35:22 PM »
Can we pls put the URLs and their claim here so that everyone can see. Perhaps we can put a screenshot of AV vendor's claims to see if they sell this a protection/prevention from (all) malware or not.

thank you very much.

Melih
Check out AVG:
http://www.avg.com/us-en/why-avg
In the picture they claim every one of their users is perfectly safe.

Avast:
http://www.avast.com/index#tab2
Says it "Keeps your computer and files free from viruses".

Comodo:
http://www.comodo.com/home/internet-security/internet-security-pro.php
I was surprised to find this, but there is a line about what Internet Security Pro includes that states that the antivirus can "Track down and destroy any existing malware hiding in a PC". I believe this is the type of exaggeration that we are discussing in this thread.

Offline Melih

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2010, 05:53:51 PM »
Check out AVG:
http://www.avg.com/us-en/why-avg
In the picture they claim every one of their users is perfectly safe.

Avast:
http://www.avast.com/index#tab2
Says it "Keeps your computer and files free from viruses".

Comodo:
http://www.comodo.com/home/internet-security/internet-security-pro.php
I was surprised to find this, but there is a line about what Internet Security Pro includes that states that the antivirus can "Track down and destroy any existing malware hiding in a PC". I believe this is the type of exaggeration that we are discussing in this thread.

CIS Pro does come with Live PC Support service, which includes geeks who can track down and get rid off malware in PCs. Its not just software, its a remote service too. Hope this clarifies.

thanks
Melih

Offline Chiron

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2010, 06:00:18 PM »
That does make much more sense, but at least on the site it appears that the claim applies directly to the AV component. It's not a big deal since the same security is there and any malware can be removed, but I thought it merited bringing it to your attention.

I suppose this is one of the reasons why the Free version now comes with the free 30 day trial of PC Support. Even free users can have this same security (at least for 30 days). Thanks for the clarification.

PS: Can anyone believe the boast that AVG makes? Quoting directly it says that "110 million people will tell you computers are perfectly safe. They are with AVG."

Offline Melih

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2010, 06:06:19 PM »
that is the problem with AV industry.

Anti Virus product is like a detergent... it can clean some of the dirt... but cannot keep your pants clean! Its a reactive technology.

An AV cannot keep a Clean PC Clean! But the marketing from AV companies says it can, which is at best misleading imo.

Melih

Offline MagusBR

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2010, 01:25:34 PM »
..."An Anti Virus product cannot guarantee that a clean computer can stay clean!

So why do we buy these products then or they get bundled with our computers when we buy them?"...

A: For the same reason we buy detergent to clean-up a plate (or maybe the blog's author eat in dirt dishes)  ;D

I never liked AV too, but I have a good sense and D+ enabled  :-TU

Offline Ovidiu G.

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2010, 06:46:53 AM »
I think this question can not be answered so easily or maybe never, but
what it is important is how much we are involved in this industry. In
other words, on what we spend our money and and how much the product we
choose is what we wanted?

What we really want? Protection in the way wich a completely unknown
malware is prevented from accessing our computer! As long as I bought
a product which provides computer protection (at least that is trying
to be convinced by the ads market!) but my computer was infected, I do
not think I gave the money on what I really wanted. It does not seem
normal to pay a product that improves his detection rate by infecting
my computer or others around the world! But these products claim to
ensure protection of ours computers...

In reality, I think that our choice when buying a internet security
suite make this industry to be more prosperous in circumstances where
the threat of the malwares is in a permanent increase and becoming
more aggressive! How much is the growing aggressiveness of the malwares
even more buying we products with the highest protection ratings although
we will never be protected against newest malwares! I think the best
decision are the products based on prevention technologies because only
they are able to prevent the infections (not to detect!) of the newest
malwares!

Offline SVinto

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2010, 11:30:18 AM »
This is one really interesting subject to talk about as it has a great impact on everyone who own or use computers all over the world.

From my own personal point of view..Why they doing it, it's quite simple.

To make companies running they always need an economical engine (similar like the antivirus), the only difference is that these malwares are the customers wallets and opinions ;)
Without income and outcome (like the firewall) probably their business will stand still sooner or later. And their "browser" should'nt run as expected...

Edit:
Another funny phenomen why things has the ability to follow in the same footsteps and why we imagine and believe that we shall have "protection" from Antivirus solutions. It is only a big concequence that we watching each others back and make copycats from what we having around us. It looks the same on a personal level as it looks like between companies on the big market. When I wrote "opinions" above, it is sort of included in this complex context together with economic marketing strategies and old traditions.

So in simple terms, it's all about money and ofcourse advertisement for make the product floating and impressive in all the customers eyes. If it loose shares on the market - they out of the game.

I agree completely with Melih that it should be harder controol in this field of what might be ok to promise  all those who read the advertisement testimonials and so on for the AV product.
Unfortunately I'm afraid it will take ages before the industry or our goverments find the strength to find something concrete in the matter. Still Internet it's a kind of new zoone which has'nt found a 100% regulated protection in the name of law for you & me. It's like an invention which became made from a basic idea and as time go by we will discover more and more needs for it to run and succeed properly to work better in the real world.
There is one good solution on this dilemma and it is to tell these companies that we do not accept it! Another is to spread new influences/inspiration and knowledge from new thinking and new different inventions.

If seeing something, let them hear it through both ears please!
Don't be silent.

Must mention also that it is beautiful to see how much Comodo cares about peoples and all it's users/customers security and wellbeing at Internet. It's a great impressive responsibility that Comodo as  a vendor shows us here and also unvaluable in a longer perspective for the whole world // a good hallmark on a winner.
A very important work!
Thanks Melih & everyone at Comodo.
  
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 11:10:30 AM by SVinto »

Offline CISuserOnly

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2010, 11:31:02 AM »
CIS Pro does come with Live PC Support service, which includes geeks who can track down and get rid off malware in PCs. Its not just software, its a remote service too. Hope this clarifies.

thanks
Melih
First let me say that I love this CEO corner thing. It is very nice of you to want to interact with the community.
End of Off-topic

Well it does not clarifies it deceives! If you get infected with malware theres a high chance that you no longer can acess Comodo live support! Since your computer will be compromised, so just like any other COMODO can and ill fail to track and destroy. And even so it does not fail to destroy due to live support it ill fail to track since the user ill have to contac live support and say "hey I am infected" so we can assume the user tracked it not Comodo.
It was very nice of you to point out other companys desonest marketing strategies, but IMHO COMODO follows the same strategy but in a less agrassive way. Honest marketing strategies are on low supply now a days!

Offline rudyg

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2010, 06:43:14 PM »
Melih I would like to see CIS tested by independent AV labs.  Is this in the works soon?

Offline aweir14150

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2010, 11:39:06 PM »
I used to pay for antivirus software until I realized there were so many free ones available. I won't consider it fraud until they can coax money out of me, which will never happen.  ;)

I like to think of antivirus as the door man who checks the list before letting you in. If you're on the list, you won't be let in. A blacklist is ineffective because a sneak might not be on the list. A whitelist is also ineffective because a sneaky person could be mistakenly put on it or maybe they have malicious intentions are not known at the time.

A HIPS is like the bouncer inside. Yeah, the door man let you in, but as soon as you try something stupid, the bouncer will throw you out the door. LOL


But the problem here is that the bouncer has to know what types of behavior to watch out for. The sneak always has new tricks up his sleeve and it's important that if the door man lets him in, the bouncer has to know every trick the sneak has up his sleeve so he won't get fooled.

Second part of the problem is that in order for the bouncer to prevent new unknown problems, he has to be analyzing every behavior of the sneak, not just the behaviors that he knows will result in known problems. How will the bouncer know what to look for, then? He won't! He only knows to look for known behaviors that will result in known problems. He can analyze EVERY SINGLE behavior but until an attack already happens he won't know what behaviors to block.

Thirdly, if a new type of attack happens based on a behavior that didn't alert the bouncer in the first place, the bouncer has failed miserably.

Antivirus industry in general has failed the computer community in that it is not able to collectively protect users as a whole!

What we need then is not separate antivirus vendors competing with each other, providing different signatures, but a single collection of ALL known malware in existence. That's a start and is the ONLY way antivirus can ever protect the computer community as a whole.


Antivirus=door man
HIPS=bouncer

« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 12:05:58 AM by aweir14150 »

Offline tormod

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2010, 12:02:55 AM »
Melih I would like to see CIS tested by independent AV labs.  Is this in the works soon?
There is a thread about this here:
http://forums.comodo.com/news-announcements-feedback-cis/comodo-really-should-let-avcomparatives-test-their-av-t60099.0.html
Basically, Panic has stated that AV Comparatives will be testing CIS in their next round of tests.

Offline dmadalton

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2010, 03:24:13 PM »
don't go along the lines of the bad guys only have to right 1 time but we gotta be right all the time every time

Offline Tech

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Re: Is the AntiVirus biggest fraud in the security world?
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2010, 03:40:23 PM »
Its a reactive technology.
Indeed, that's the problem. With heuristics, generic signatures and behavior analysis they can reduce the problem. But it will always be there for a legacy antivirus.
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