Win32/AdInstaller

[Guest]

[gibran]

You'll get the same "trouble" with ZA Free, Spy Sweeper or whatever else that bundles this thing (even Nero 8.0) - and no, it's not a false positive, the Ask.com thing IS a potentially unwanted app.

Too bad you are not an AV developer. If you were I was going to ask you a thoughtful description about the facts behind that classification in a separate topic.
But I guess that your post contains no more than your viewpoint.

[Vettetech]

So what you saying is this is spyware and wrong. Email the company. Its right here.

http://sp.ask.com/docs/about/site_features.shtml#searchtoolbar

[doktornotor]

Too bad you are not an AV developer. If you were I was going to ask you a thoughtful description about the facts behind that classification in a separate topic.
But I guess that your post contains no more than your viewpoint.

WinPatrol developer thoughts on this toolbar....

So what you saying is this is spyware and wrong. Email the company. Its right here.

http://sp.ask.com/docs/about/site_features.shtml#searchtoolbar

Nowhere did I say it's spyware. It's a potentially unwanted application detected by multiple antivirus/antimalware vendors. Why's it so? Well, because of the history behind Ask Jeeves/Ask.com stuff bundled and installed without users' notification/consent, often aided by false/misleading advertising. These years of history is something that simply can't be erased and better consideration on Comodo's side would be nice in future. Essentially boils down to the same issue of trust I've mentioned on the MBAM thread today. 

[gibran]

WinPatrol developer thoughts on this toolbar....

I already knew of that. I read it again though just to not overlook anything. Bill Pytlovany is against any additional software installed with a product expecially when the user is not asked about that. This is not the case with CFP

Nowhere did I say it's spyware. It's a potentially unwanted application detected by multiple antivirus/antimalware vendors. Why's it so? Well, because of the history behind Ask Jeeves/Ask.com stuff bundled and installed without users' notification/consent, often aided by false/misleading advertising. These years of history is something that simply can't be erased and better consideration on Comodo's side would be nice in future. Essentially boils down to the same issue of trust I've mentioned on the MBAM thread today. 

In other words FUD.

As previously reported by Vettetech Nod32 default settings doesn't report about it. As those search toolbars are widely available ESET could have just added its signature to NOD.
I wonder why this didn't happen.

A more unbiased approach would have been to scan other toolbars with NOD with the additional "Potentially unsafe applications" setting tured on in order to gather additional facts.
It may be that NOD heuristic is just too sensible to toolbar installations. Even in the case NOD doesn't warn about google,yahoo,MS live,alexa toolbars I guess some nod user should get in touch with esed developers to get an official reply about this false positive.

You are stating your personal opinions as facts. I wonder if your viewpoint should be trusted more than sophos' ask toolbar analisys

[doktornotor]

In other words FUD.

What's FUD? The tons of cruft installing Ask toolbars without user knowledge? No, that's not FUD, that's a statement of fact, documented on multiple places.

As previously reported by Vettetech Nod32 default settings doesn't report about it. As those search toolbars are widely available ESET could have just added its signature to NOD.
I wonder why this didn't happen.

What kind of signature you want to add? The signature is already there, and since this widely bundled cruft with nasty history is something the user might not want installed, it gets detected as appropriate when the setting is enabled by the user - live with it. If you can't, pick a different engine with a nicer history. And frankly said, everyone's plain tired of all those useless toolbars that clutter browser Windows without providing any useful functionality, think about it again a bit.

[gibran]

What's FUD? The tons of cruft installing Ask toolbars without user knowledge? No, that's not FUD, that's a statement of fact, documented on multiple places.

Specifically it is an argumentum in terrorem advocating "history" that way, while using outdated articles is more like FUD.


Besides it is a different matter if some deveveloper abused their customer trust installing software without any user interaction in the past. Those developers did something wrong.

Google toolbar is also bundled with freeware software and it is not much different from ASK toolbar. If some developer bundle google toolbar with their software and install it by force that act would be wrong in the same way. This will not make google toolbar dangerous. What is questionable would be the forced acton. 

What kind of signature you want to add? The signature is already there, and since this widely bundled cruft with nasty history is something the user might not want installed, it gets detected as appropriate when the setting is enabled by the user - live with it. If you can't, pick a different engine with a nicer history.

That is entirely your speculation. If you have nod why don't you scan other search toolbars during installation and post the results?

Besides Sophos is a good AV too, please check AV comparatives Retrospective/ProActive Test. Anyway there is not much more to say after sophos RE professionals specifically analyzed ASK toobar.

If a toolbar was a threat it should have been added to the av signature, if it is detected by heuristic and it was not a threat then it is a false positive.

If an Eset Developer explicitely states that their AV detect all toolbar as potential threat I would ask why they designed it to NOT ask for user input before terminating those apps (like I read in this topic).

Without user input  It’s not only rude, it’s just wrong (If I had to borrow a sentence from WinPatrol developer thoughts).

Letting the user to stay in control doesn't apply only to installers. In this regard CFP installation was termintated without any user input even if the installation meet all requirement to be considered LEGIT.
What other developers did or how a toolbar was abused in the past doesn't look relevant to me.

And frankly said, everyone's plain tired of all those useless toolbars that clutter browser Windows without providing any useful functionality, think about it again a bit.

Yes I guess that you consider the word "I" as a synonym of "everyone". That was exactly my point.

[doktornotor]

Yaaawn... To make long story short - stop bundling infamous junk with CPF and you won't have AV issues. At minimum, stop pretending that the toolbar actually does anything useful for the user - it doesn't. All the functionality is there even after it gets uninstalled. Generating revenue is not a firewall functionality. Finally, if neither of the above is possible, stop being hypocritical at least and tell people the truth - you need to generate money and you don't care much how. Then choose less sucky partners next time for your toolbars. Lesson learnt? I guess not, unfortunately... 

[gibran]

doktornotor latest post was moved to a private area of the forum and is currently awaiting moderators review for policy infringment.

[doktornotor]

doktornotor latest post was moved to a private area of the forum and is currently awaiting moderators review for policy infringment.

Meh... what a surprise. Seriously, please think about the toolbar thing a bit more and speak honestly instead of the marketing blurb. People dislike it and the problem has manifested itself repeatedly on this forum. Trust is extremely hard to gain and extremely easy to lose. 

[Melih]

Meh... what a surprise. Seriously, please think about the toolbar thing a bit more and speak honestly instead of the marketing blurb. People dislike it and the problem has manifested itself repeatedly on this forum. Trust is extremely hard to gain and extremely easy to lose. 

1)Does the user have the choice to install or not?
yes they do.

2)When installed does it doe anything other than what its supposed to?
No it does not.

3)Are we being punished because other vendors who also pushed Ask toolbar did so in not so good ways?
Yes we are.

4)Is what we are doing wrong, bad, ill intentioned?
No its not.

Rather than going with the hype lets take a look at the hard facts at hand. Look at the AV vendors who fixed this FP and look at the product itself to see if its anything other than a simple search toolbar!

As mentioned previously, we are building our own toolbar that we will make available soon.

thanks
Melih

[Tags:]