Why disable antivirus?

[Guest]

[JNavas]

I like your analogy. But it seems that you are saying we should not let the user release the seat belt!
The "driver is permanently strapped into the car" if we do not provide an option to turn off the realtime protection.

What I'm actually saying is that you should never drive anywhere without being belted in. It may seem unnecessary for a short trip to the store, but the majority of accidents actually occur close to home. AV is no different IMHO.

I agree that we should protect the user, but I would like the ability to turn the AV on/off by the try icon.
...
JNavas, I definitely see your point and think it is a good one...after all, comodo is about protection.  Maybe this can be worked into a scheme where the program has a "Basic" interface (set it and forget it) in which the dangerous options would be greyed out, and an "advanced " interface in which these options are available.

Greying things out is a techie paradigm -- average users tend to think things should work if they are at all visible, and get frustrated when they can't select them (calling me in the middle of the night to complain about broken software) -- I don't want Advanced Options to be at all visible in Basic Mode.

I'm not even comfortable with a menu option in Advanced Mode because it's all too easy to select the wrong menu item by mistake. I think it should always take a bit of effort to turn off protection.

Bottom line is that I like the current system and don't think it should be changed. If there is to be a pop-up menu item, then I absolutely want a confirmation dialog (which wouldn't be much faster than the current system).

What's the big issue with starting the GUI?!

My US$0.02,
John

[Whoop-dee-doo]

It will be tough making all users happy with the CIS interface. But, I am sure Comodo will take all these comments/suggestions into account and come up with something stellar. I am certainly glad we have these forums to voice our thoughts...I think all the comments help make Comodo's products stonger. The people who post may not agree on all the issues, but I bet we can agree on this:
 

Whoop

[Monkey_Boy=)]

You can easily disable D+ and Firewall by right clicking, why not AV?
I see why somewhat, the normal-user has a less risk to disable the AV by accident and I agree somewhat the GUI is not that bothersome, those who need to disable the AV know how to check the GUI and is not the normal user.
I think adding unnecessary shortcuts can make things less safe for ordinary people.

Maby the comodo logo at bottom right should get red or something when for instance the D+ or firewall module is set to OFF (even if set to that manually), reminding the user that some of his protection is off?

[Whoop-dee-doo]

Maybe the comodo logo at bottom right should get red or something when for instance the D+ or firewall module is set to OFF

Something like this was suggested here (check out the 3rd picture in the post). Comodo is considering modifications to the GUI and user interface...so all these suggestions are being taken into account.

As my signature below states: "The best way to have a good idea is to have a lot of ideas." - Linus Pauling
If we keep the ideas coming...Comodo will only get better. 

_Whoop-dee-^doo                                 

[Monkey_Boy=)]

Something like this was suggested here (check out the 3rd picture in the post). Comodo is considering modifications to the GUI and user interface...so all these suggestions are being taken into account.

As my signature below states: "The best way to have a good idea is to have a lot of ideas." - Linus Pauling
If we keep the ideas coming...Comodo will only get better. 

_Whoop-dee-^doo                                 

You usability guys does a good job!

Nice design too. 

[JNavas]

Something like this was suggested here (check out the 3rd picture in the post).

On further consideration of points made here I do think there's a good case for consistency of all three elements of CIS in the pop-up menu, as in the 3rd picture here, although I'd like to have all three items removed from the pop-up menu in Basic Mode.

John

[JNavas]

An easy example of a relevant case is the one in Australia nearly a year ago now.  Individual was subject to a traffic violation based on camera.  They fought and won.  Basically, they asked the question (in essence), "Can you validate the authenticity of the video as being the same as the original?"  The prosecution was not prepared to answer the question (no expert witness to testify about md5 hash, evidence handling, etc), so bye-bye case!
This shows that those who work with digital evidence must use methods to preserve the integrity of (even) extracted data, and provide testimony to that effect when required.  I'm sure you will agree that if a file is hashed *within* a mounted image set, then extracted to be able to provide to the court, the extracted file must hash identically to the one hashed within the image set.  Or else, if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit...

I do not agree (for reasons already stated). Please give this a rest. Thank you.
~John

[JNavas]

Who is anyone to say that somebody else shouldn't be able to disable their AVs?

Who is anyone to say that somebody else shouldn't be able to drive without a seatbelt, or ride a motorcycle without a crash helmet? We do this because there is a compelling public interest in highway safety, to prevent additional harm and/or cost to society.

Businesses likewise have a legitimate interest in saying employees shouldn't be able to disable AV in order to protect the business and its property.

I think we'll eventually get to the point where people will be legally responsible for harm caused by machines that have gotten infected through negligence, but no one is actually suggesting that yet.

These posts were originally just an objection to adding a pop-up CIS icon menu item to disable AV, hijacked from that Wish to this Forum. If you read the entire topic you'll see that I've since dropped that objection, making the issue moot (although I still would like a Basic or Simple mode where options to disable protection do not appear on the CIS pop-up menu).

John

[Little Mac]

I do not agree (for reasons already stated). Please give this a rest. Thank you.
~John

Sorry if my response to your question requesting the exact contents of that response, irritates you.  I was merely trying to respond in accordance with your request; since you mentioned it twice, I figured it was important to you.

May it RIP.

LM

[JNavas]

In this aspect, I agree with you. But, only, if we're talking about computer safety within departments, companies, etc. But, I also think, that in this case, the way AV work should be different. How? Since we're talking, possibly, about a computer network, then an AV that could be controlled by the administrator(s) from a remote system. Then, on request, and after questioning the request, the AV could be disabled.

Many (most?) won't disable AV for any reason.
Like me, they see no good reason to do so, and lots of reasons not to.

Will that be practicable? I mean, how will anyone say for sure that someone neglected security and got infected because of that, and not because the antivirus, merely failed to detect anything?

If (say) your computer was implicated in a DoS attack that caused great damage, the burden of proof that it wasn't your fault might well be on you. Just like driving a car with crappy brakes that kills someone, and trying to claim it's not your fault.

I see. While I agree there should be a simple and advanced mode, which then people could move ahead to advanced mode, when feeling confortable with CIS, I don't think the option to disable the AV should die in the simple mode.

I'm not able to use any product professionally that can be easily disabled, and I don't want my clients being confused by options that don't work.

Let's imagine that, for some reason, the AV was turning the system unstable, as it is happening with Eset NOD32 (100% usage) since last July, if I am not mistaken, and that Eset still found no fix for it, then what? Those users shouldn't be able to disable their AV and get the control of their PCs back?

We only deploy applications that aren't crap.
If an application turns to crap, we replace it with something that isn't crap.
What we don't do is allow protection to be turned off.

I do understand where you also want to get from your point of view, but, IMHO, it wouldn't become useful, such denial.

Don't presume to tell me my business, and I won't presume to tell you how reckless you are. Deal?

John

[JNavas]

Over and out.

Good. I don't agree, don't have time to argue, and don't appreciate the attitude.

John

[Monkey_Boy=)]

Good. I don't agree, don't have time to argue, and don't appreciate the attitude.

John

 
I think you started this thread with a argument when asking "Why disable antivirus?".
And should know that there probably will be a discussion/argument of people thinking both ways.
About that "don't appreciate the attitude" thing I think m00nbl00d's idea was just to say where he stands and I don't think he meant something personal.

Anyway of course you have the right to stop participating in a thread too when you feels like this don't go anywhere or for whatever reason. Anyway have a good time all three of you, all made valid points! 

[JNavas]

I think you started this thread with a argument when asking "Why disable antivirus?".

No, this topic is actually the invention of the Moderator that hijacked my post (but not the post I was responding to, destroying the context) from the AV Wish Enable/Disable Antivirus with rightclick on the icon.

About that "don't appreciate the attitude" thing I think m00nbl00d's idea was just to say where he stands and I don't think he meant something personal.

Sorry, but that's not how it seems to me. I've beta tested for a great many companies, and this is one of the more unprofessional environments I've encountered.

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