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| | |-+  HIPS POLL!
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Poll
Question: do you think HIPS can keep your computer more secure than anti-virus or anti-spyware software do?
yes
no
don't know

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Author Topic: HIPS POLL!  (Read 5555 times)
LUSHER
Guest
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2006, 05:54:10 PM »

I don't run Prevx1 at all. Though i have a license.

You can save your words on SSM, i'm very familar with it.

The "keep process in memory" is a very old outdated feature back in the early dates of SSM (pre 1.95 version I think).  It was necessary back in the days when SSM had minimal process termination protection so being able to auto-restart a critical process was semi useful.

These days SSM can resist pretty much every termination attack known to man, so you don't need this feature....

I would highly recommend you get the paid version of SSM.

There are vast improvements in anti-termination attacks, registry control, anti-keylogging as well as protection against low level disk access techniques used by killdisk variants that can nuke your hard-disk and a few other stuff i'm forgetting.

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apache255
Guest
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2006, 06:22:19 PM »

I was not talking AT ALL about SSM's own process protection; if you were that familiar with SSM you would know that if you decide it, it can prevent any OTHER process than itself to be terminated, like a firewall, or your favorite AV, or anything else...well you probably know that too. Just gonna save my words... Wink
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LUSHER
Guest
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2006, 06:34:29 PM »

I was not talking AT ALL about SSM's own process protection; if you were that familiar with SSM you would know that if you decide it, it can prevent any OTHER process than itself to be terminated, like a firewall, or your favorite AV, or anything else...

Yes of course (though it's limited in the free version) but that's not what the option of  "keep processes in memory" which you mentioned does!

From the menu.

"If process was terminated or not started, then SSM will again start this program."

This is not the same as anti-termination protection!
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apache255
Guest
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2006, 06:57:07 PM »

ok, now I know that you're really familiar with ssm. Indeed it does not prevent a program's termination, but it restarts it when it's stopped, by you or anyone else, or anything else. I find that already important. Once I was trying to dowload a program (Messenger Plus). The program was known, from software like MS antispy at the time,(now Defender),to be a big source of spam and spyware. I tried to download it anyway. And as the download just began, my MS anti-spy was suddenly automatically neutralized, stopped! and SSM would have restarted it again, which would have prevented my desktop from being suddenly crowded with adds about gambling and all that sh**...well that's just an example.
the only thing to be carefull with concerning that feature of SSM is that you MUST disable it fo each program set to be protected, before you reboot. Otherwise SSM would keep restarting them, well you know what I mean...What kind of stuff do you use to check MD5 on files?
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LUSHER
Guest
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2006, 07:37:40 PM »

ok, now I know that you're really familiar with ssm. Indeed it does not prevent a program's termination, but it restarts it when it's stopped, by you or anyone else, or anything else. I find that already important. Once I was trying to dowload a program (Messenger Plus). The program was known, from software like MS antispy at the time,(now Defender),to be a big source of spam and spyware. I tried to download it anyway. And as the download just began, my MS anti-spy was suddenly automatically neutralized, stopped! and SSM would have restarted it again, which would have prevented my desktop from being suddenly crowded with adds about gambling and all that sh**...well that's just an example.

This merely shows you the failure of SSM! It should have being able to protect MS antispyware from being shut down in the first place!! The current version of SSM is much better against termination attacks, handling WM_QUIT, WM_CLOSE and other advanced kill methods. There is no way in which any process can get shut down without your permission man.

Quote
the only thing to be carefull with concerning that feature of SSM is that you MUST disable it fo each program set to be protected, before you reboot. Otherwise SSM would keep restarting them, well you know what I mean...

That is why this is a lousy feature. Also In the couple of seconds that it takes SSM to poll (which is memory intensive) and realise that the process is shut down, the malicious process could have taken out half your system.

Quote
What kind of stuff do you use to check MD5 on files?

I know what a md5 hash is, but I'm not quite sure what you are asking. I have a small program (script actually) that modifies the context menu of explorer, so i can right click a file can choose between crc.md5 and sha1 functions and it will calculate the hash value. Is that what you mean?

Also SSM free records the md5 hash of all executables no? BTW md5 hash (and to some extent sha1) is a bit outdated and in some crypto contexts it is broken already. though I think chances of someone exploiting the flaw to force a hash collison of 2 specially prepared files is rather small.

Still in theory it is possible for someone to prepare 2 files with the exact same md5 hash, one safe, one malicious. You use the safe one and ssm adds it to the safe list, and the bad guy then runs the unsafe one which ssm allows because it has the same hash function and ssm thinks it the same file..... Smiley

That's why most modern HIPS are slowly moving towardsa SHA256 or some completely different hash function like Tiger or whirlpool.

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apache255
Guest
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2006, 06:31:12 AM »

This merely shows you the failure of SSM! It should have being able to protect MS antispyware from being shut down in the first place!! The current version of SSM is much better against termination attacks, handling WM_QUIT, WM_CLOSE and other advanced kill methods. There is no way in which any process can get shut down without your permission man.



I think you misunderstood  me .I was not using SSM at all by the time, otherwise it would have worked. I just wanted here to underline the value of the feature.
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LUSHER
Guest
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2006, 06:46:55 AM »

I think you misunderstood  me .I was not using SSM at all by the time, otherwise it would have worked. I just wanted here to underline the value of the feature.

Oh sorry. Yeah i get overly excited sometimes. Anyway this will be my last post on this forum.

Good Luck.
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apache255
Guest
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2006, 06:48:12 AM »

the commercial version of SSM uses sha512. Does that mean that hips implement new signatures to files? Well I'm not a specialist in crypto at all.It probably works like PGP, when you sign a file yourself. I just found it rather convenient that SSM free records md5 hashes from files, just to tell you just in case that an executable  has been modified. I get an alert for example if I uninstall a program, and reinstall a new version of it. I've read that stuff about sha1 one being partially broken. The guy who wrote truecrypt published a new version of his program last year, just a few days after another new version had been released, just because some users worried about the use of sha1, and that was just in the password generation process, not in the volume creation process. Jesus I know bloody nothing about cryptography, so I should stop talking about it...
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apache255
Guest
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2006, 06:50:32 AM »

ok, bye!
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LUSHER
Guest
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2006, 09:26:11 AM »

Maybe i'll stick around anyway.
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